From jmkris@gmail.com Mon Sep 7 15:39:58 2009 From: jmkris@gmail.com (Jim Kristan) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:39:58 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Tuesday Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Are we on for CIPA Filter tuesday?Jim K ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/3cbc5220/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From combustioninc@yahoo.com Tue Sep 8 04:46:53 2009 From: combustioninc@yahoo.com (Bob) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 20:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [QCLUG] Tuesday Message-ID: <860459.85650.qm@web57609.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I thought we were meeting at the Bettendorf Library on the odd months.=A0 I= sn't the meeting=0Aat the Bettendorf Library on September 8 ?=0A=0ABob=0A= =0A=0A From jmkris@gmail.com Tue Sep 8 05:05:12 2009 From: jmkris@gmail.com (Jim Kristan) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 23:05:12 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Tuesday In-Reply-To: <860459.85650.qm@web57609.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <860459.85650.qm@web57609.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I did a search of my e-mail, it appears that Cpia Filter is on for October, Oops!You are right Bob. So it looks like Bettendorf Tuesday. Jim K On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Bob wrote: > I thought we were meeting at the Bettendorf Library on the odd months. > Isn't the meeting > at the Bettendorf Library on September 8 ? > > Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/4e4bebc6/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From hinkle@cipafilter.com Tue Sep 8 16:47:55 2009 From: hinkle@cipafilter.com (David Hinkle) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:47:55 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Tuesday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2B2B1F3CB7@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Sure From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf Of= Jim Kristan Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:40 AM To: QCLUG Subject: [QCLUG] Tuesday Are we on for CIPA Filter tuesday? Jim K ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/67705bb0/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From hinkle@cipafilter.com Tue Sep 8 16:50:13 2009 From: hinkle@cipafilter.com (David Hinkle) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:50:13 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Tuesday In-Reply-To: References: <860459.85650.qm@web57609.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2B2B1F3CBD@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Ok, then I won't be expecting you. David From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf Of= Jim Kristan Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:05 PM To: qclug@qclug.org Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Tuesday I did a search of my e-mail, it appears that Cpia Filter is on for October,= Oops! You are right Bob. So it looks like Bettendorf Tuesday. Jim K On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Bob > wrote: I thought we were meeting at the Bettendorf Library on the odd months. Isn= 't the meeting at the Bettendorf Library on September 8 ? Bob _______________________________________________ QCLUG mailing list QCLUG@qclug.org http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/fb72395d/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From pdameasap@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 19:40:39 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:40:39 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 Message-ID: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> First, I'd like to say hi to the list. This is my first post and, although I am a programmer and have run Linux before (dual boot XP/SuSe), I consider myself a rank noob. I run my own web server and email server using Apache Httpd, Tomcat, and JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) and would like to buy, configure, and send via snailmail a bare bones Linux box to a friend in another state - who is knowledgeable with Linux - so I can have one or more backup servers at different locations in case my local machine has down time which - you know, being Windows - happens. I would like to buy an extra monitor which will work for both Linux and Windows so I can use that monitor to troubleshoot the tower or minitower before sending, but use as a dual monitor for my PC at other times. Later on, I'd like to splinter the monitor off to a full Linux computer locally, also to run server software. I am not very experienced selecting hardware, although I've built my own computer before, and could use some help selecting hardware that would be worthwhile for this, preferably pre-built, but wouldn't mind paying someone a nominal fee if they don't mind me watching in person while it's built. For the hardware, I'm looking to spend somewhere in the ballpark of $3-400 as I will likely need to buy several such systems. I will probably need 3-4 GB RAM, onboard graphics is probably fine, any modern HD is probably fine, and as good a CPU as I can find for the money, preferably AMD or at the very least non-Intel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Am available for response via email from here, or if realtime communication is possible am also active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN Messenger, and available via phone as well. For contact details, ask via personal email. ~Rhys From t.shearouse@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 20:11:33 2009 From: t.shearouse@gmail.com (Tim Shearouse) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:11:33 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Nearly any monitor will work -- just be sure to match the interface (DVI vs. VGA) with what you have on your computer, or else get a matching adapter. Are you looking for a data backup server, or a failover server? I'm guessing based on the RAM / CPU requirements you're looking at an always-on failover server. Are you concerned about ECC vs. non-ECC RAM? With your price point, if you're looking for stock desktop parts, you can usually find something decent on outlet.dell.com. If you want to go custom-built, you can get a high-end Athlon X2 processor, 4GB ram, a 500GB hard drive, dvd drive, case with power supply, and decent motherboard for $300 - $350. A second hard drive to mirror the data would push it into the $350 - $400 range. I'd be more than willing to help with the build for nothing more than the fun of yet another computer build -- having you there to watch would be no problem at all -- but it might be a bit before I have the free time. Mondays in October I don't work, that might be easiest if you'd like. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rhys Black wrote: > First, I'd like to say hi to the list. This is my first post and, although > I am a programmer and have run Linux before (dual boot XP/SuSe), I consider > myself a rank noob. > > I run my own web server and email server using Apache Httpd, Tomcat, and > JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) and would like to buy, configure, and send via > snailmail a bare bones Linux box to a friend in another state - who is > knowledgeable with Linux - so I can have one or more backup servers at > different locations in case my local machine has down time which - you know, > being Windows - happens. I would like to buy an extra monitor which will > work for both Linux and Windows so I can use that monitor to troubleshoot > the tower or minitower before sending, but use as a dual monitor for my PC > at other times. Later on, I'd like to splinter the monitor off to a full > Linux computer locally, also to run server software. > > I am not very experienced selecting hardware, although I've built my own > computer before, and could use some help selecting hardware that would be > worthwhile for this, preferably pre-built, but wouldn't mind paying someone > a nominal fee if they don't mind me watching in person while it's built. > > For the hardware, I'm looking to spend somewhere in the ballpark of $3-400 > as I will likely need to buy several such systems. I will probably need 3-4 > GB RAM, onboard graphics is probably fine, any modern HD is probably fine, > and as good a CPU as I can find for the money, preferably AMD or at the very > least non-Intel. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Am available for response via email from here, or if realtime communication > is possible am also active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN Messenger, and available > via phone as well. For contact details, ask via personal email. > > ~Rhys > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/3845899b/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From pdameasap@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 20:28:59 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:28:59 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> Failover. I remember having done the research on ECC vs non-ECC RAM some time back, but don't really remember the high points. I just remember that non-registered was the best for what I was looking for, then. I actually just came back from outlet.us.dell.com and found this: http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28# Does that look like it would be suitable for what I'm talking about? In absence of that, I would love to build it (if you build it they will come... LOL) just terrified of the responsibility of doing it myself. I'd rather have an experienced hand around in case I get the urge to screw the mb onto the side of the tower w/o washers. I am available Monday, but the friend will only be at his place through next week. Shipping will get tight, I'm sure. ~Rhys Tim Shearouse wrote: > Nearly any monitor will work -- just be sure to match the interface > (DVI vs. VGA) with what you have on your computer, or else get a > matching adapter. > > Are you looking for a data backup server, or a failover server? I'm > guessing based on the RAM / CPU requirements you're looking at an > always-on failover server. Are you concerned about ECC vs. non-ECC > RAM? With your price point, if you're looking for stock desktop parts, > you can usually find something decent on outlet.dell.com > . > > If you want to go custom-built, you can get a high-end Athlon X2 > processor, 4GB ram, a 500GB hard drive, dvd drive, case with power > supply, and decent motherboard for $300 - $350. A second hard drive to > mirror the data would push it into the $350 - $400 range. > > I'd be more than willing to help with the build for nothing more than > the fun of yet another computer build -- having you there to watch > would be no problem at all -- but it might be a bit before I have the > free time. Mondays in October I don't work, that might be easiest if > you'd like. > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rhys Black > wrote: > > First, I'd like to say hi to the list. This is my first post and, > although I am a programmer and have run Linux before (dual boot > XP/SuSe), I consider myself a rank noob. > > I run my own web server and email server using Apache Httpd, > Tomcat, and JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) and would like to buy, > configure, and send via snailmail a bare bones Linux box to a > friend in another state - who is knowledgeable with Linux - so I > can have one or more backup servers at different locations in case > my local machine has down time which - you know, being Windows - > happens. I would like to buy an extra monitor which will work for > both Linux and Windows so I can use that monitor to troubleshoot > the tower or minitower before sending, but use as a dual monitor > for my PC at other times. Later on, I'd like to splinter the > monitor off to a full Linux computer locally, also to run server > software. > > I am not very experienced selecting hardware, although I've built > my own computer before, and could use some help selecting hardware > that would be worthwhile for this, preferably pre-built, but > wouldn't mind paying someone a nominal fee if they don't mind me > watching in person while it's built. > > For the hardware, I'm looking to spend somewhere in the ballpark > of $3-400 as I will likely need to buy several such systems. I > will probably need 3-4 GB RAM, onboard graphics is probably fine, > any modern HD is probably fine, and as good a CPU as I can find > for the money, preferably AMD or at the very least non-Intel. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Am available for response via email from here, or if realtime > communication is possible am also active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN > Messenger, and available via phone as well. For contact details, > ask via personal email. > > ~Rhys > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > From t.shearouse@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 20:37:26 2009 From: t.shearouse@gmail.com (Tim Shearouse) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:37:26 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Since you only have a week, pre-built sounds best. Otherwise it takes time for all the individual parts to come in, then time to meet up and build it ... then we just hope it doesn't take extra time to handle any DOA parts. The only concern I'd have with that machine is the processor. What's in your current machine, and what kind of load does it see? On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Rhys Black wrote: > Failover. I remember having done the research on ECC vs non-ECC RAM some > time back, but don't really remember the high points. I just remember that > non-registered was the best for what I was looking for, then. > > I actually just came back from outlet.us.dell.com and found this: > > > http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28# > > Does that look like it would be suitable for what I'm talking about? > > In absence of that, I would love to build it (if you build it they will > come... LOL) just terrified of the responsibility of doing it myself. I'd > rather have an experienced hand around in case I get the urge to screw the > mb onto the side of the tower w/o washers. > > I am available Monday, but the friend will only be at his place through > next week. Shipping will get tight, I'm sure. > > ~Rhys > > Tim Shearouse wrote: > >> Nearly any monitor will work -- just be sure to match the interface (DVI >> vs. VGA) with what you have on your computer, or else get a matching >> adapter. >> Are you looking for a data backup server, or a failover server? I'm >> guessing based on the RAM / CPU requirements you're looking at an always-on >> failover server. Are you concerned about ECC vs. non-ECC RAM? With your >> price point, if you're looking for stock desktop parts, you can usually find >> something decent on outlet.dell.com . >> If you want to go custom-built, you can get a high-end Athlon X2 >> processor, 4GB ram, a 500GB hard drive, dvd drive, case with power supply, >> and decent motherboard for $300 - $350. A second hard drive to mirror the >> data would push it into the $350 - $400 range. >> I'd be more than willing to help with the build for nothing more than the >> fun of yet another computer build -- having you there to watch would be no >> problem at all -- but it might be a bit before I have the free time. Mondays >> in October I don't work, that might be easiest if you'd like. >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rhys Black > pdameasap@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> First, I'd like to say hi to the list. This is my first post and, >> although I am a programmer and have run Linux before (dual boot >> XP/SuSe), I consider myself a rank noob. >> >> I run my own web server and email server using Apache Httpd, >> Tomcat, and JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) and would like to buy, >> configure, and send via snailmail a bare bones Linux box to a >> friend in another state - who is knowledgeable with Linux - so I >> can have one or more backup servers at different locations in case >> my local machine has down time which - you know, being Windows - >> happens. I would like to buy an extra monitor which will work for >> both Linux and Windows so I can use that monitor to troubleshoot >> the tower or minitower before sending, but use as a dual monitor >> for my PC at other times. Later on, I'd like to splinter the >> monitor off to a full Linux computer locally, also to run server >> software. >> >> I am not very experienced selecting hardware, although I've built >> my own computer before, and could use some help selecting hardware >> that would be worthwhile for this, preferably pre-built, but >> wouldn't mind paying someone a nominal fee if they don't mind me >> watching in person while it's built. >> >> For the hardware, I'm looking to spend somewhere in the ballpark >> of $3-400 as I will likely need to buy several such systems. I >> will probably need 3-4 GB RAM, onboard graphics is probably fine, >> any modern HD is probably fine, and as good a CPU as I can find >> for the money, preferably AMD or at the very least non-Intel. >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Am available for response via email from here, or if realtime >> communication is possible am also active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN >> Messenger, and available via phone as well. For contact details, >> ask via personal email. >> >> ~Rhys >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/a9d63290/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From pdameasap@gmail.com Thu Sep 10 22:00:58 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:00:58 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> My current machine is only a single core AMD Athlon 2500+ Current demands are low but applications for the web server may scale because they're Facebook. In the event they scale, though, neither of these machines are likely to serve the demand themselves, in which case I suppose I'll either just buy more, or buy some specifically for colocating at an ISP. re the outlet.us.dell.com one, possible to put a better processor in it? By the way, thanks for all the awesome responses. However we end up doing this, I'm really looking forward to getting this business running entirely or mostly on linux machines. ~Rhys Tim Shearouse wrote: > Since you only have a week, pre-built sounds best. Otherwise it takes > time for all the individual parts to come in, then time to meet up and > build it ... then we just hope it doesn't take extra time to handle > any DOA parts. > > The only concern I'd have with that machine is the processor. What's > in your current machine, and what kind of load does it see? > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Rhys Black > wrote: > > Failover. I remember having done the research on ECC vs non-ECC > RAM some time back, but don't really remember the high points. I > just remember that non-registered was the best for what I was > looking for, then. > > I actually just came back from outlet.us.dell.com > and found this: > > http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28# > > > Does that look like it would be suitable for what I'm talking about? > > In absence of that, I would love to build it (if you build it they > will come... LOL) just terrified of the responsibility of doing it > myself. I'd rather have an experienced hand around in case I get > the urge to screw the mb onto the side of the tower w/o washers. > > I am available Monday, but the friend will only be at his place > through next week. Shipping will get tight, I'm sure. > > ~Rhys > > Tim Shearouse wrote: > > Nearly any monitor will work -- just be sure to match the > interface (DVI vs. VGA) with what you have on your computer, > or else get a matching adapter. > Are you looking for a data backup server, or a failover > server? I'm guessing based on the RAM / CPU requirements > you're looking at an always-on failover server. Are you > concerned about ECC vs. non-ECC RAM? With your price point, if > you're looking for stock desktop parts, you can usually find > something decent on outlet.dell.com > >. > > If you want to go custom-built, you can get a high-end Athlon > X2 processor, 4GB ram, a 500GB hard drive, dvd drive, case > with power supply, and decent motherboard for $300 - $350. A > second hard drive to mirror the data would push it into the > $350 - $400 range. > I'd be more than willing to help with the build for nothing > more than the fun of yet another computer build -- having you > there to watch would be no problem at all -- but it might be a > bit before I have the free time. Mondays in October I don't > work, that might be easiest if you'd like. > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rhys Black > > >> wrote: > > First, I'd like to say hi to the list. This is my first > post and, > although I am a programmer and have run Linux before (dual boot > XP/SuSe), I consider myself a rank noob. > > I run my own web server and email server using Apache Httpd, > Tomcat, and JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) and would like to buy, > configure, and send via snailmail a bare bones Linux box to a > friend in another state - who is knowledgeable with Linux - > so I > can have one or more backup servers at different locations > in case > my local machine has down time which - you know, being > Windows - > happens. I would like to buy an extra monitor which will > work for > both Linux and Windows so I can use that monitor to > troubleshoot > the tower or minitower before sending, but use as a dual > monitor > for my PC at other times. Later on, I'd like to splinter the > monitor off to a full Linux computer locally, also to run > server > software. > > I am not very experienced selecting hardware, although I've > built > my own computer before, and could use some help selecting > hardware > that would be worthwhile for this, preferably pre-built, but > wouldn't mind paying someone a nominal fee if they don't > mind me > watching in person while it's built. > > For the hardware, I'm looking to spend somewhere in the > ballpark > of $3-400 as I will likely need to buy several such systems. I > will probably need 3-4 GB RAM, onboard graphics is probably > fine, > any modern HD is probably fine, and as good a CPU as I can find > for the money, preferably AMD or at the very least non-Intel. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Am available for response via email from here, or if realtime > communication is possible am also active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN > Messenger, and available via phone as well. For contact > details, > ask via personal email. > > ~Rhys > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > > > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > From t.shearouse@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 13:15:30 2009 From: t.shearouse@gmail.com (Tim Shearouse) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:15:30 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Buying from the Dell outlet you can't customize the computers -- that's why you get a better price, they're machines someone else configured and then returned or declined for some reason. But you'll be fine, the Pentium D will easily outstrip a single-core Athlon. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Rhys Black wrote: > My current machine is only a single core AMD Athlon 2500+ > > Current demands are low but applications for the web server may scale > because they're Facebook. In the event they scale, though, neither of these > machines are likely to serve the demand themselves, in which case I suppose > I'll either just buy more, or buy some specifically for colocating at an > ISP. > > re the outlet.us.dell.com one, > possible to put a better processor in it? > > By the way, thanks for all the awesome responses. However we end up doing > this, I'm really looking forward to getting this business running entirely > or mostly on linux machines. > > ~Rhys > > Tim Shearouse wrote: > >> Since you only have a week, pre-built sounds best. Otherwise it takes time >> for all the individual parts to come in, then time to meet up and build it >> ... then we just hope it doesn't take extra time to handle any DOA parts. >> The only concern I'd have with that machine is the processor. What's in >> your current machine, and what kind of load does it see? >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Rhys Black > pdameasap@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Failover. I remember having done the research on ECC vs non-ECC >> RAM some time back, but don't really remember the high points. I >> just remember that non-registered was the best for what I was >> looking for, then. >> >> I actually just came back from outlet.us.dell.com >> and found this: >> >> >> http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28# >> < >> http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&%7Elt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28#> >> >> >> Does that look like it would be suitable for what I'm talking about? >> >> In absence of that, I would love to build it (if you build it they >> will come... LOL) just terrified of the responsibility of doing it >> myself. I'd rather have an experienced hand around in case I get >> the urge to screw the mb onto the side of the tower w/o washers. >> >> I am available Monday, but the friend will only be at his place >> through next week. Shipping will get tight, I'm sure. >> >> ~Rhys >> >> Tim Shearouse wrote: >> >> Nearly any monitor will work -- just be sure to match the >> interface (DVI vs. VGA) with what you have on your computer, >> or else get a matching adapter. >> Are you looking for a data backup server, or a failover >> server? I'm guessing based on the RAM / CPU requirements >> you're looking at an always-on failover server. Are you >> concerned about ECC vs. non-ECC RAM? With your price point, if >> you're looking for stock desktop parts, you can usually find >> something decent on outlet.dell.com >> >. >> >> If you want to go custom-built, you can get a high-end Athlon >> X2 processor, 4GB ram, a 500GB hard drive, dvd drive, case >> with power supply, and decent motherboard for $300 - $350. A >> second hard drive to mirror the data would push it into the >> $350 - $400 range. >> I'd be more than willing to help with the build for nothing >> more than the fun of yet another computer build -- having you >> there to watch would be no problem at all -- but it might be a >> bit before I have the free time. Mondays in October I don't >> work, that might be easiest if you'd like. >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rhys Black >> >> >> wrote: >> >> First, I'd like to say hi to the list. This is my first >> post and, >> although I am a programmer and have run Linux before (dual boot >> XP/SuSe), I consider myself a rank noob. >> >> I run my own web server and email server using Apache Httpd, >> Tomcat, and JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) and would like to buy, >> configure, and send via snailmail a bare bones Linux box to a >> friend in another state - who is knowledgeable with Linux - >> so I >> can have one or more backup servers at different locations >> in case >> my local machine has down time which - you know, being >> Windows - >> happens. I would like to buy an extra monitor which will >> work for >> both Linux and Windows so I can use that monitor to >> troubleshoot >> the tower or minitower before sending, but use as a dual >> monitor >> for my PC at other times. Later on, I'd like to splinter the >> monitor off to a full Linux computer locally, also to run >> server >> software. >> >> I am not very experienced selecting hardware, although I've >> built >> my own computer before, and could use some help selecting >> hardware >> that would be worthwhile for this, preferably pre-built, but >> wouldn't mind paying someone a nominal fee if they don't >> mind me >> watching in person while it's built. >> >> For the hardware, I'm looking to spend somewhere in the >> ballpark >> of $3-400 as I will likely need to buy several such systems. I >> will probably need 3-4 GB RAM, onboard graphics is probably >> fine, >> any modern HD is probably fine, and as good a CPU as I can find >> for the money, preferably AMD or at the very least non-Intel. >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> >> Am available for response via email from here, or if realtime >> communication is possible am also active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN >> Messenger, and available via phone as well. For contact >> details, >> ask via personal email. >> >> ~Rhys >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> > >> >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/d182a5f0/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From jmkris@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 16:38:08 2009 From: jmkris@gmail.com (Jim Kristan) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:38:08 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment When buying from the Dell Outlet, I would advise you to also check new prices, sometimes the difference is negligible, when I ordered my netbook from Dell, new was actually cheaper! Jim K On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Tim Shearouse wrote: > Buying from the Dell outlet you can't customize the computers -- that's why > you get a better price, they're machines someone else configured and then > returned or declined for some reason. But you'll be fine, the Pentium D will > easily outstrip a single-core Athlon. > > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Rhys Black wrote: > >> My current machine is only a single core AMD Athlon 2500+ >> >> Current demands are low but applications for the web server may scale >> because they're Facebook. In the event they scale, though, neither of these >> machines are likely to serve the demand themselves, in which case I suppose >> I'll either just buy more, or buy some specifically for colocating at an >> ISP. >> >> re the outlet.us.dell.com one, >> possible to put a better processor in it? >> >> By the way, thanks for all the awesome responses. However we end up doing >> this, I'm really looking forward to getting this business running entirely >> or mostly on linux machines. >> >> ~Rhys >> >> Tim Shearouse wrote: >> >>> Since you only have a week, pre-built sounds best. Otherwise it takes >>> time for all the individual parts to come in, then time to meet up and build >>> it ... then we just hope it doesn't take extra time to handle any DOA parts. >>> The only concern I'd have with that machine is the processor. What's in >>> your current machine, and what kind of load does it see? >>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Rhys Black >> pdameasap@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Failover. I remember having done the research on ECC vs non-ECC >>> RAM some time back, but don't really remember the high points. I >>> just remember that non-registered was the best for what I was >>> looking for, then. >>> >>> I actually just came back from outlet.us.dell.com >>> and found this: >>> >>> >>> http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28# >>> < >>> http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&%7Elt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28#> >>> >>> >>> Does that look like it would be suitable for what I'm talking about? >>> >>> In absence of that, I would love to build it (if you build it they >>> will come... LOL) just terrified of the responsibility of doing it >>> myself. I'd rather have an experienced hand around in case I get >>> the urge to screw the mb onto the side of the tower w/o washers. >>> >>> I am available Monday, but the friend will only be at his place >>> through next week. Shipping will get tight, I'm sure. >>> >>> ~Rhys >>> >>> Tim Shearouse wrote: >>> >>> Nearly any monitor will work -- just be sure to match the >>> interface (DVI vs. VGA) with what you have on your computer, >>> or else get a matching adapter. >>> Are you looking for a data backup server, or a failover >>> server? I'm guessing based on the RAM / CPU requirements >>> you're looking at an always-on failover server. Are you >>> concerned about ECC vs. non-ECC RAM? With your price point, if >>> you're looking for stock desktop parts, you can usually find >>> something decent on outlet.dell.com >>> >. >>> >>> If you want to go custom-built, you can get a high-end Athlon >>> X2 processor, 4GB ram, a 500GB hard drive, dvd drive, case >>> with power supply, and decent motherboard for $300 - $350. A >>> second hard drive to mirror the data would push it into the >>> $350 - $400 range. >>> I'd be more than willing to help with the build for nothing >>> more than the fun of yet another computer build -- having you >>> there to watch would be no problem at all -- but it might be a >>> bit before I have the free time. Mondays in October I don't >>> work, that might be easiest if you'd like. >>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rhys Black >>> >>> >> >>> wrote: >>> >>> First, I'd like to say hi to the list. This is my first >>> post and, >>> although I am a programmer and have run Linux before (dual boot >>> XP/SuSe), I consider myself a rank noob. >>> >>> I run my own web server and email server using Apache Httpd, >>> Tomcat, and JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) and would like to buy, >>> configure, and send via snailmail a bare bones Linux box to a >>> friend in another state - who is knowledgeable with Linux - >>> so I >>> can have one or more backup servers at different locations >>> in case >>> my local machine has down time which - you know, being >>> Windows - >>> happens. I would like to buy an extra monitor which will >>> work for >>> both Linux and Windows so I can use that monitor to >>> troubleshoot >>> the tower or minitower before sending, but use as a dual >>> monitor >>> for my PC at other times. Later on, I'd like to splinter the >>> monitor off to a full Linux computer locally, also to run >>> server >>> software. >>> >>> I am not very experienced selecting hardware, although I've >>> built >>> my own computer before, and could use some help selecting >>> hardware >>> that would be worthwhile for this, preferably pre-built, but >>> wouldn't mind paying someone a nominal fee if they don't >>> mind me >>> watching in person while it's built. >>> >>> For the hardware, I'm looking to spend somewhere in the >>> ballpark >>> of $3-400 as I will likely need to buy several such systems. I >>> will probably need 3-4 GB RAM, onboard graphics is probably >>> fine, >>> any modern HD is probably fine, and as good a CPU as I can find >>> for the money, preferably AMD or at the very least non-Intel. >>> >>> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Am available for response via email from here, or if realtime >>> communication is possible am also active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN >>> Messenger, and available via phone as well. For contact >>> details, >>> ask via personal email. >>> >>> ~Rhys >>> _______________________________________________ >>> QCLUG mailing list >>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>> > >>> >>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> QCLUG mailing list >>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >> > > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/4c9ebefb/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 17:49:49 2009 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:49:49 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Another video problem In-Reply-To: References: <997c8c1b0908251523w3d636ec3ufded63d0ba5a8649@mail.gmail.com> <3595677a0908251926n7c5e19e8p460d2674a0484105@mail.gmail.com> <997c8c1b0908261114w7dbfe464vef1c7083da795178@mail.gmail.com> <997c8c1b0908261327p7a2c48d2x14f1c18de8830079@mail.gmail.com> <4A959EA6.1040700@countrystone.com> <997c8c1b0908261412t12c2f99aie535624c85155b5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <997c8c1b0909110949t2960ef54i651ceff91429ba9d@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 9:56 PM, Austin Mount wrote: > if you get to the point where you give up or want a gui while your working > on it you can use the vesa driver... should work for any modern card and > give you 1024x768... > > i attached one of my xorg config for nvidia if it helps... its for dual > screen w/ xinerama not twin view but might be useful to you... > > On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:12:27 -0500, Jim Hall > wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Austin Mount wrote: > >> didn't read completely through your thread but just fyi the kernel module >> that is part of the vanilla source doesn't play nice with another one... >> >> not sure on your distro but in gentoo you build the kernel without any >> nvidia frame buffer support or otherwise then emerge nvidia-drivers and it >> builds and the proprietary drives makes and installs the proper kernel >> module... >> >> if you're running ubuntu or something with a live kernel that autodetects >> stuff it may be installing the module that is part of vanilla kernel source >> and then throwing up when loading the one from nvidia... >> >> anywho just a thought to look into... >> >> Austin D. Mount >> A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS >> Systems Administration >> Application Development >> Web Services >> Office(309)787-1744x220 >> Cell(309)737-2086 >> >> >> Jim Hall wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Chris Cooper >> QCAdmin@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Just throwing out a long shot, but have you tried booting on an older >>> kernel in case the driver likes that, or there is an older version of >>> the driver in that kernel's mods? >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Jim Hall>> volunteer.jim@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Christopher Kruse >>> > >> kruse.christopher@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I'd make sure that the kernel is fully accepting the nvidia binary >>> >> blob; check dmesg and see if it has any module insertion >>> errors. If >>> >> not, run `lsmod | grep nvidia` to see if you have the kernel module >>> >> loaded. It may be as simple as that. >>> >> >>> >> Other culprits: check /var/log/Xorg.*.log to see what it's >>> >> specifically failing on. >>> >> >>> >> Cheers, >>> >> >>> >> Christopher >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > Results. dmesg is as pure as the driven snow. Kernel module is >>> loaded. >>> > Xort.*.log shows no failures. Went through Nvidia's knowledge >>> base, made a >>> > couple of changes in "xorg.conf", nothing. >>> > >>> > System boots fine until it gets to Xorg and GDM. Then get black >>> screen. If >>> > go to a different runlevel I get a console, but all of Nvidia's >>> config files >>> > are binary and need a GUI to work. Catch 22. >>> > >>> > Don't know what to try next. >>> > >>> > Jim >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> Just tried that. No difference. I believe that's because older linux >>> kernel has older nvidia kernel module which doesn't match driver on HD. >>> >>> I'm fairly certain this is some stupid config problem, but I don't know >>> what or where. Even if I got a 640x480 GUI, I'd have something to work with. >>> >>> Jim >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > I used the .run file from Nvidia. It worked on my Debian Lenny box. This > one is Debian Etch. I ran lsmod and it says the correct nvidia kernel is > installed as a module. > > Jim > > > > -- > Austin D. Mount > A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS > Systems Administration > Application Development > Web Services > Office(309)787-1744x220 > Cell(309)737-2086 > > > > > Thanks for all the help and suggestions folks. I gave up for now and reinstalled the 169.x.x driver using Envy (the Etch version). Etch and Lenny must have some difference that makes the binary driver from Nvidia cake in Lenny. It's back to where it was when I started, so I'll leave it there. Maybe later. Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/dac593e7/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 18:36:37 2009 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:36:37 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM Message-ID: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Debian Lenny; Dual Core; 2GB RAM; 160GB HD; latest Wine A few meetings ago I was lent two Linux Format issues. Both contained articles about Virtual Machines. I've read them (and other things) several times trying to get familiar with the concepts. My comp does have CPU hardware support. I play WoW. My guild wants everyone to use a program called "Rawr" http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr It uses .NET. I've installed 2.0 in Wine, but that's too old. Recommended now is 3.5 (SP1), which in Wine is listed as "garbage". Mono is listed as the Linux and Mac solution. Lenny has 1.9 in repository (too old). Mono lists 2.4.x.x as latest. That is in testing and experimental. I have the Backports repository enabled. Tried to install, but ran into "dependency hell". Every file (mostly libs) I looked at needed 1-3 levels of more dependencies. I gave up. I don't know what all that would do to Lenny. I run Debian for it's stability. I need it to work. I won't knowingly break it. I would need a developer to swear on a stack of Bibles that it won't break! And if it does, he'll fix it! So, it looks like VM is the only solution I have. I wanted to try it anyway, this looks like a good reason. BTW, I do have one legal copy of Win XP. Looks like KVM with Qemu (or Qemu alone) would be the best choice for my needs. Both are in the repository (along with free VMware, VirtualBox, and Xen) . If anyone has any comments of any kind, please feel free. Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/94f77a47/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From barry@vonahsen.com Fri Sep 11 19:24:21 2009 From: barry@vonahsen.com (Barry Von Ahsen) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:24:21 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM In-Reply-To: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> Jim Hall wrote: > So, it looks like VM is the only solution I have. I wanted to try it anyway, > this looks like a good reason. BTW, I do have one legal copy of Win XP. > Looks like KVM with Qemu (or Qemu alone) would be the best choice for my > needs. Both are in the repository (along with free VMware, VirtualBox, and > Xen) . If anyone has any comments of any kind, please feel free. I run XP on lenny with virtualbox on my laptop with no trouble, and I'm running XP on Xen on Centos at work, but xen was a pain with debian, which is why I went with virtualbox you'll just have to make sure you're running a kernel that has the vbox modules available, I think the package is virtualbox-ose-modules -barry From t.shearouse@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 19:28:12 2009 From: t.shearouse@gmail.com (Tim Shearouse) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:28:12 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM In-Reply-To: <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> References: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment One word of warning before you start gaming in a virtualized environment: To my knowledge, no current virtualization platform has support for DirectX. No matter what hardware you have, all you're likely to be able to emulate is standard VGA graphics without 3D rendering. You might end up having to dual-boot. On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > Jim Hall wrote: > >> So, it looks like VM is the only solution I have. I wanted to try it >> anyway, >> this looks like a good reason. BTW, I do have one legal copy of Win XP. >> Looks like KVM with Qemu (or Qemu alone) would be the best choice for my >> needs. Both are in the repository (along with free VMware, VirtualBox, and >> Xen) . If anyone has any comments of any kind, please feel free. >> > > I run XP on lenny with virtualbox on my laptop with no trouble, and I'm > running XP on Xen on Centos at work, but xen was a pain with debian, which > is why I went with virtualbox > > you'll just have to make sure you're running a kernel that has the vbox > modules available, I think the package is virtualbox-ose-modules > > -barry > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/3a7400f1/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From mriedesel@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 19:51:32 2009 From: mriedesel@gmail.com (Mark Riedesel) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:51:32 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM In-Reply-To: References: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> Message-ID: <1c9537490909111151u2ca865bfgfd2fc5d5808d53c@mail.gmail.com> The most recent virtualbox has accelerated opengl support IIRC. Though it may only be for Linux guests, not sure about Windows guests.. It'd be mentioned in a recent changelog if it was. On 9/11/09, Tim Shearouse wrote: > One word of warning before you start gaming in a virtualized environment: To > my knowledge, no current virtualization platform has support for DirectX. No > matter what hardware you have, all you're likely to be able to emulate is > standard VGA graphics without 3D rendering. > > You might end up having to dual-boot. > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Barry Von Ahsen wrote: > >> Jim Hall wrote: >> >>> So, it looks like VM is the only solution I have. I wanted to try it >>> anyway, >>> this looks like a good reason. BTW, I do have one legal copy of Win XP. >>> Looks like KVM with Qemu (or Qemu alone) would be the best choice for my >>> needs. Both are in the repository (along with free VMware, VirtualBox, >>> and >>> Xen) . If anyone has any comments of any kind, please feel free. >>> >> >> I run XP on lenny with virtualbox on my laptop with no trouble, and I'm >> running XP on Xen on Centos at work, but xen was a pain with debian, which >> is why I went with virtualbox >> >> you'll just have to make sure you're running a kernel that has the vbox >> modules available, I think the package is virtualbox-ose-modules >> >> -barry >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >> > From hinkle@cipafilter.com Fri Sep 11 20:22:42 2009 From: hinkle@cipafilter.com (David Hinkle) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:22:42 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM In-Reply-To: <1c9537490909111151u2ca865bfgfd2fc5d5808d53c@mail.gmail.com> References: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> <1c9537490909111151u2ca865bfgfd2fc5d5808d53c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 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dXN0IGhhdmUgdG8gbWFrZSBzdXJlIHlvdSdyZSBydW5uaW5nIGEga2VybmVsIHRoYXQgaGFzIHRo ZSB2Ym94DQo+PiBtb2R1bGVzIGF2YWlsYWJsZSwgSSB0aGluayB0aGUgcGFja2FnZSBpcyB2aXJ0 dWFsYm94LW9zZS1tb2R1bGVzDQo+Pg0KPj4gLWJhcnJ5DQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gUUNMVUcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+PiBR Q0xVR0BxY2x1Zy5vcmcNCj4+IGh0dHA6Ly9xY2x1Zy5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9xY2x1 Zw0KPj4NCj4NCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f DQpRQ0xVRyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNClFDTFVHQHFjbHVnLm9yZw0KaHR0cDovL3FjbHVnLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3FjbHVnDQo= From fatpuppystew@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 21:04:11 2009 From: fatpuppystew@gmail.com (Mike Robinson) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:04:11 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1252699451.3316.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> check out the deal at woot for today...move fast if your interested http://www.woot.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Jim Kristan Reply-to: qclug@qclug.org To: qclug@qclug.org Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:38:08 -0500 When buying from the Dell Outlet, I would advise you to also check new prices, sometimes the difference is negligible, when I ordered my netbook from Dell, new was actually cheaper! Jim K On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Tim Shearouse wrote: Buying from the Dell outlet you can't customize the computers -- that's why you get a better price, they're machines someone else configured and then returned or declined for some reason. But you'll be fine, the Pentium D will easily outstrip a single-core Athlon. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Rhys Black wrote: My current machine is only a single core AMD Athlon 2500 + Current demands are low but applications for the web server may scale because they're Facebook. In the event they scale, though, neither of these machines are likely to serve the demand themselves, in which case I suppose I'll either just buy more, or buy some specifically for colocating at an ISP. re the outlet.us.dell.com one, possible to put a better processor in it? By the way, thanks for all the awesome responses. However we end up doing this, I'm really looking forward to getting this business running entirely or mostly on linux machines. ~Rhys Tim Shearouse wrote: Since you only have a week, pre-built sounds best. Otherwise it takes time for all the individual parts to come in, then time to meet up and build it ... then we just hope it doesn't take extra time to handle any DOA parts. The only concern I'd have with that machine is the processor. What's in your current machine, and what kind of load does it see? On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Rhys Black > wrote: Failover. I remember having done the research on ECC vs non-ECC RAM some time back, but don't really remember the high points. I just remember that non-registered was the best for what I was looking for, then. I actually just came back from outlet.us.dell.com and found this: http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28# Does that look like it would be suitable for what I'm talking about? In absence of that, I would love to build it (if you build it they will come... LOL) just terrified of the responsibility of doing it myself. I'd rather have an experienced hand around in case I get the urge to screw the mb onto the side of the tower w/o washers. I am available Monday, but the friend will only be at his place through next week. Shipping will get tight, I'm sure. ~Rhys Tim Shearouse wrote: Nearly any monitor will work -- just be sure to match the interface (DVI vs. VGA) with what you have on your computer, or else get a matching adapter. Are you looking for a data backup server, or a failover server? I'm guessing based on the RAM / CPU requirements you're looking at an always-on failover server. Are you concerned about ECC vs. non-ECC RAM? With your price point, if you're looking for stock desktop parts, you can usually find something decent on outlet.dell.com >. If you want to go custom-built, you can get a high-end Athlon X2 processor, 4GB ram, a 500GB hard drive, dvd drive, case with power supply, and decent motherboard for $300 - $350. A second hard drive to mirror the data would push it into the $350 - $400 range. I'd be more than willing to help with the build for nothing more than the fun of yet another computer build -- having you there to watch would be no problem at all -- but it might be a bit before I have the free time. Mondays in October I don't work, that might be easiest if you'd like. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rhys Black >> wrote: First, I'd like to say hi to the list. This is my first post and, although I am a programmer and have run Linux before (dual boot XP/SuSe), I consider myself a rank noob. I run my own web server and email server using Apache Httpd, Tomcat, and JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) and would like to buy, configure, and send via snailmail a bare bones Linux box to a friend in another state - who is knowledgeable with Linux - so I can have one or more backup servers at different locations in case my local machine has down time which - you know, being Windows - happens. I would like to buy an extra monitor which will work for both Linux and Windows so I can use that monitor to troubleshoot the tower or minitower before sending, but use as a dual monitor for my PC at other times. Later on, I'd like to splinter the monitor off to a full Linux computer locally, also to run server software. I am not very experienced selecting hardware, although I've built my own computer before, and could use some help selecting hardware that would be worthwhile for this, preferably pre-built, but wouldn't mind paying someone a nominal fee if they don't mind me watching in person while it's built. For the hardware, I'm looking to spend somewhere in the ballpark of $3-400 as I will likely need to buy several such systems. I will probably need 3-4 GB RAM, onboard graphics is probably fine, any modern HD is probably fine, and as good a CPU as I can find for the money, preferably AMD or at the very least non-Intel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Am available for response via email from here, or if realtime communication is possible am also active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN Messenger, and available via phone as well. For contact details, ask via personal email. ~Rhys _______________________________________________ QCLUG mailing list QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug _______________________________________________ QCLUG mailing list QCLUG@qclug.org http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug _______________________________________________ QCLUG mailing list QCLUG@qclug.org http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug From pdameasap@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 21:35:13 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:35:13 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <1252699451.3316.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> <1252699451.3316.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AAAB481.2020301@gmail.com> Got one... Now, if I can only figure out what it's missing that I still need... The Quad core definitely looks good. I need a worthwhile wireless networking card (doesn't say, so I doubt it has it). Any suggestions for compatibility? ~Rhys Mike Robinson wrote: > check out the deal at woot for today...move fast if your interested > > http://www.woot.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Kristan > Reply-to: qclug@qclug.org > To: qclug@qclug.org > Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 > Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:38:08 -0500 > > When buying from the Dell Outlet, I would advise you to also check new > prices, sometimes the difference is negligible, when I ordered my > netbook from Dell, new was actually cheaper! > > > Jim K > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Tim Shearouse > wrote: > Buying from the Dell outlet you can't customize the computers -- > that's why you get a better price, they're machines someone else > configured and then returned or declined for some reason. But > you'll be fine, the Pentium D will easily outstrip a single-core > Athlon. > > > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Rhys Black > wrote: > My current machine is only a single core AMD Athlon 2500 > + > > Current demands are low but applications for the web > server may scale because they're Facebook. In the event > they scale, though, neither of these machines are likely > to serve the demand themselves, in which case I suppose > I'll either just buy more, or buy some specifically for > colocating at an ISP. > > re the outlet.us.dell.com one, > possible to put a better processor in it? > > By the way, thanks for all the awesome responses. > However we end up doing this, I'm really looking > forward to getting this business running entirely or > mostly on linux machines. > > ~Rhys > > Tim Shearouse wrote: > Since you only have a week, pre-built sounds > best. Otherwise it takes time for all the > individual parts to come in, then time to meet > up and build it ... then we just hope it doesn't > take extra time to handle any DOA parts. > The only concern I'd have with that machine is > the processor. What's in your current machine, > and what kind of load does it see? > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Rhys Black > > wrote: > > Failover. I remember having done the > research on ECC vs non-ECC > RAM some time back, but don't really remember > the high points. I > just remember that non-registered was the > best for what I was > looking for, then. > > I actually just came back from > outlet.us.dell.com > > and found this: > > > > http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=EZ1FH2TG&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28# > > > > > > Does that look like it would be suitable for > what I'm talking about? > > In absence of that, I would love to build it > (if you build it they > will come... LOL) just terrified of the > responsibility of doing it > myself. I'd rather have an experienced hand > around in case I get > the urge to screw the mb onto the side of the > tower w/o washers. > > I am available Monday, but the friend will > only be at his place > through next week. Shipping will get tight, > I'm sure. > > ~Rhys > > Tim Shearouse wrote: > > Nearly any monitor will work -- just be > sure to match the > interface (DVI vs. VGA) with what you > have on your computer, > or else get a matching adapter. > Are you looking for a data backup > server, or a failover > server? I'm guessing based on the RAM / > CPU requirements > you're looking at an always-on failover > server. Are you > concerned about ECC vs. non-ECC RAM? With > your price point, if > you're looking for stock desktop parts, > you can usually find > > something decent on outlet.dell.com > > >. > > > If you want to go custom-built, you can > get a high-end Athlon > X2 processor, 4GB ram, a 500GB hard > drive, dvd drive, case > with power supply, and decent motherboard > for $300 - $350. A > second hard drive to mirror the data > would push it into the > $350 - $400 range. > I'd be more than willing to help with > the build for nothing > more than the fun of yet another computer > build -- having you > there to watch would be no problem at all > -- but it might be a > bit before I have the free time. Mondays > in October I don't > work, that might be easiest if you'd > like. > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Rhys > Black > > > > >> wrote: > > First, I'd like to say hi to the > list. This is my first > post and, > although I am a programmer and have > run Linux before (dual boot > XP/SuSe), I consider myself a rank > noob. > > I run my own web server and email > server using Apache Httpd, > Tomcat, and JAMES (on a Win XP HE box) > and would like to buy, > configure, and send via snailmail a > bare bones Linux box to a > friend in another state - who is > knowledgeable with Linux - > so I > can have one or more backup servers at > different locations > in case > my local machine has down time which - > you know, being > Windows - > happens. I would like to buy an extra > monitor which will > work for > both Linux and Windows so I can use > that monitor to > troubleshoot > the tower or minitower before sending, > but use as a dual > monitor > for my PC at other times. Later on, > I'd like to splinter the > monitor off to a full Linux computer > locally, also to run > server > software. > > I am not very experienced selecting > hardware, although I've > built > my own computer before, and could use > some help selecting > hardware > that would be worthwhile for this, > preferably pre-built, but > wouldn't mind paying someone a nominal > fee if they don't > mind me > watching in person while it's built. > > For the hardware, I'm looking to spend > somewhere in the > ballpark > of $3-400 as I will likely need to buy > several such systems. I > will probably need 3-4 GB RAM, onboard > graphics is probably > fine, > any modern HD is probably fine, and as > good a CPU as I can find > for the money, preferably AMD or at > the very least non-Intel. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Am available for response via email > from here, or if realtime > communication is possible am also > active on IRC, AIM, YMI, MSN > Messenger, and available via phone as > well. For contact > details, > ask via personal email. > > ~Rhys > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > > > > > > > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > From QCAdmin@gmail.com Fri Sep 11 23:26:49 2009 From: QCAdmin@gmail.com (Chris Cooper) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:26:49 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM In-Reply-To: <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2B2FFD221B@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> References: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> <1c9537490909111151u2ca865bfgfd2fc5d5808d53c@mail.gmail.com> <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2B2FFD221B@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> Message-ID: VirtualBox 3.0 has decent DirectX support now. I have several VM's that I use on a daily basis and it works great. My only word of caution is, do not install from the debian stock repos. Add the Virtualbox repos and use their build. instructions for this are on their site: http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads Also, to get Direct3d support, you need to install the guest tools in safemode. More info on that can be found in the user manual: http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#id2507577 http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#guestadd-3d Other than that, welcome to the virtualization kick. Chris On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:22 PM, David Hinkle wrote= : > He doesn't need graphics acceleration, =A0Rar is a data analysis package = used to examine and optimize a character in the game in order to make it mo= re powerful. =A0 It does procedural analysis on gear, weapons, and various = enhancements that can be applied to the character and other gear in order t= o recommend to the user the optimal setup for various encounters he may fac= e. =A0 It's vital for high end encounters in the game that are much more li= ke serious business than actual gaming. :) > > I've used rawr and it will work well in virtualization. =A0 =A0Just a not= e in case it comes up, vista behaves badly under virtualization, stick to X= P. > > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf = Of Mark Riedesel > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:52 PM > To: qclug@qclug.org > Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Ready for VM > > The most recent virtualbox has accelerated opengl support IIRC. Though > it may only be for Linux guests, not sure about Windows guests.. It'd > be mentioned in a recent changelog if it was. > > On 9/11/09, Tim Shearouse wrote: >> One word of warning before you start gaming in a virtualized environment= : To >> my knowledge, no current virtualization platform has support for DirectX= . No >> matter what hardware you have, all you're likely to be able to emulate i= s >> standard VGA graphics without 3D rendering. >> >> You might end up having to dual-boot. >> >> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Barry Von Ahsen wr= ote: >> >>> Jim Hall wrote: >>> >>>> So, it looks like VM is the only solution I have. I wanted to try it >>>> anyway, >>>> this looks like a good reason. BTW, I do have one legal copy of Win XP= . >>>> Looks like KVM with Qemu (or Qemu alone) would be the best choice for = my >>>> needs. Both are in the repository (along with free VMware, VirtualBox, >>>> and >>>> Xen) . If anyone has any comments of any kind, please feel free. >>>> >>> >>> I run XP on lenny with virtualbox on my laptop with no trouble, and I'm >>> running XP on Xen on Centos at work, but xen was a pain with debian, wh= ich >>> is why I went with virtualbox >>> >>> you'll just have to make sure you're running a kernel that has the vbox >>> modules available, I think the package is virtualbox-ose-modules >>> >>> -barry >>> _______________________________________________ >>> QCLUG mailing list >>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > From dmichael.burns@gmail.com Mon Sep 14 02:06:12 2009 From: dmichael.burns@gmail.com (DMichael Burns) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:06:12 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Using a WD My Book 500GB Ext Drive with Ubuntu Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Using Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on a Dell Inspiron 5000e Ok Gang, here is one for you. Usually I am able to figure it all out myself, but not this time. Saturday, I went to the Wally-World and found a Western Digital 500GB My Book external HDD on clearance. Sweet buy at $79. I want to use it on my laptop for backup and extra storage, but I am having an issue with Ubuntu seeing it. I do see USB DRIVE when I look at the file manager, but the file manager reports, "Unable to mount location. No media in the drive." when I try to open it. I try to mount it and get nothing - no error popup, or anything. My 2GB Pen Drive works as does any 4GB SD card I put in the reader, so I know that there isn't an issue there. Am I unable to see it because of it's size? I know I have a bios limitation for the HDD of 320GB, but I thought that it wouldn't be an issue here because it is under the control of the OS (or is my assumption wrong.) The drive is USB 2.0, but won't it work in a 1.0 setting (albeit slower)? Thanks for the help. Zonie -- "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "HOLY CRAP!!! What a ride!" ~Author Unknown ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/9831e7e9/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From adk@52761.com Mon Sep 14 03:26:24 2009 From: adk@52761.com (Allen Kiddoo) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:26:24 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Using a WD My Book 500GB Ext Drive with Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <678823f00909131926xe5d85c0o46253a9abf5a94b6@mail.gmail.com> Try it on a different computer and see if it mounts. Might be defective? Allen K. On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:06 PM, DMichael Burns wrote: > Using Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on a Dell Inspiron 5000e > > Ok Gang, here is one for you.=A0 Usually I am able to figure it all out > myself, but not this time. > > Saturday, I went to the Wally-World and found a Western Digital 500GB My > Book external HDD on clearance.=A0 Sweet buy at $79.=A0 I want to use it = on my > laptop for backup and extra storage, but I am having an issue with Ubuntu > seeing it. > > I do see USB DRIVE when I look at the file manager, but the file manager > reports, "Unable to mount location.=A0 No media in the drive." when I try= to > open it.=A0 I try to mount it and get nothing - no error popup, or anythi= ng. > > My 2GB Pen Drive works as does any 4GB SD card I put in the reader, so I > know that there isn't an issue there. > > Am I unable to see it because of it's size?=A0 I know I have a bios limit= ation > for the HDD of 320GB, but I thought that it wouldn't be an issue here > because it is under the control of the OS (or is my assumption wrong.) > > The drive is USB 2.0, but won't it work in a 1.0 setting (albeit slower)? > > Thanks for the help. > > Zonie > > -- > "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved > body, but rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn o= ut > and screaming, "HOLY CRAP!!! =A0What a ride!" > > ~Author Unknown > From dmichael.burns@gmail.com Mon Sep 14 03:45:06 2009 From: dmichael.burns@gmail.com (DMichael Burns) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:45:06 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Using a WD My Book 500GB Ext Drive with Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <678823f00909131926xe5d85c0o46253a9abf5a94b6@mail.gmail.com> References: <678823f00909131926xe5d85c0o46253a9abf5a94b6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I will try it on a win-blows box and see. After my post, I got to thinking that it may not even be formatted, but who knows. Will post the results in a bit (as soon as the wife gets off of her puter and I can try it on there). On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Allen Kiddoo wrote: > Try it on a different computer and see if it mounts. Might be defective? > > Allen K. > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:06 PM, DMichael Burns > wrote: > > Using Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on a Dell Inspiron 5000e > > > > Ok Gang, here is one for you. Usually I am able to figure it all out > > myself, but not this time. > > > > Saturday, I went to the Wally-World and found a Western Digital 500GB My > > Book external HDD on clearance. Sweet buy at $79. I want to use it on > my > > laptop for backup and extra storage, but I am having an issue with Ubuntu > > seeing it. > > > > I do see USB DRIVE when I look at the file manager, but the file manager > > reports, "Unable to mount location. No media in the drive." when I try > to > > open it. I try to mount it and get nothing - no error popup, or > anything. > > > > My 2GB Pen Drive works as does any 4GB SD card I put in the reader, so I > > know that there isn't an issue there. > > > > Am I unable to see it because of it's size? I know I have a bios > limitation > > for the HDD of 320GB, but I thought that it wouldn't be an issue here > > because it is under the control of the OS (or is my assumption wrong.) > > > > The drive is USB 2.0, but won't it work in a 1.0 setting (albeit slower)? > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Zonie > > > > -- > > "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved > > body, but rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn > out > > and screaming, "HOLY CRAP!!! What a ride!" > > > > ~Author Unknown > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > -- "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "HOLY CRAP!!! What a ride!" ~Author Unknown ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/5768e395/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From crossguy@hotmail.com Mon Sep 14 05:08:01 2009 From: crossguy@hotmail.com (Ben Ziegler) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:08:01 +0000 Subject: [QCLUG] Using a WD My Book 500GB Ext Drive with Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <678823f00909131926xe5d85c0o46253a9abf5a94b6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I have several of those - they do come formatted (FAT32) in a single partit= ion=2C with some 3rd party Windows backup software that I've never used. = Mine are currently used under Debian 4 stable on an old Pentium III. So they should work with USB 1. No experience with automount=2C I just a= dded the drives to /etc/fstab and mount them manually for backups/recovery. Hope this helps=2C Ben Ziegler --=20 Date: Sun=2C 13 Sep 2009 21:45:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Using a WD My Book 500GB Ext Drive with Ubuntu From: dmichael.burns@gmail.com To: qclug@qclug.org I will try it on a win-blows box and see. After my post=2C I got to thinki= ng that it may not even be formatted=2C but who knows. Will post the resul= ts in a bit (as soon as the wife gets off of her puter and I can try it on = there). On Sun=2C Sep 13=2C 2009 at 9:26 PM=2C Allen Kiddoo wrote: Try it on a different computer and see if it mounts. Might be defective? Allen K. On Sun=2C Sep 13=2C 2009 at 8:06 PM=2C DMichael Burns wrote: > Using Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on a Dell Inspiron 5000e > > Ok Gang=2C here is one for you. Usually I am able to figure it all out > myself=2C but not this time. > > Saturday=2C I went to the Wally-World and found a Western Digital 500GB M= y > Book external HDD on clearance. Sweet buy at $79. I want to use it on m= y > laptop for backup and extra storage=2C but I am having an issue with Ubun= tu > seeing it. > > I do see USB DRIVE when I look at the file manager=2C but the file manage= r > reports=2C "Unable to mount location. No media in the drive." when I try= to > open it. I try to mount it and get nothing - no error popup=2C or anythi= ng. > > My 2GB Pen Drive works as does any 4GB SD card I put in the reader=2C so = I > know that there isn't an issue there. > > Am I unable to see it because of it's size? I know I have a bios limitat= ion > for the HDD of 320GB=2C but I thought that it wouldn't be an issue here > because it is under the control of the OS (or is my assumption wrong.) > > The drive is USB 2.0=2C but won't it work in a 1.0 setting (albeit slower= )? > > Thanks for the help. > > Zonie > > -- > "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved > body=2C but rather to slide in sideways=2C thoroughly used up=2C totally = worn out > and screaming=2C "HOLY CRAP!!! What a ride!" > > ~Author Unknown > _______________________________________________ QCLUG mailing list QCLUG@qclug.org http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug --=20 "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved bo= dy=2C but rather to slide in sideways=2C thoroughly used up=2C totally worn= out and screaming=2C "HOLY CRAP!!! What a ride!" ~Author Unknown _________________________________________________________________ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digit= al tv's. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=3Ddigital+tv's&form=3DMSHNCB&publ=3DW= LHMTAG&crea=3DTEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1= ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/35d3f34d/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From dmichael.burns@gmail.com Mon Sep 14 12:34:16 2009 From: dmichael.burns@gmail.com (DMichael Burns) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:34:16 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Using a WD My Book 500GB Ext Drive with Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <678823f00909131926xe5d85c0o46253a9abf5a94b6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Ben Ziegler wrote: > I have several of those - they do come formatted (FAT32) in a single > partition, with some 3rd party Windows backup software that I've never used. > Mine are currently used under Debian 4 stable on an old Pentium III. > So they should work with USB 1. No experience with automount, I just > added the drives to /etc/fstab and mount them manually for backups/recovery. > > Hope this helps, > > Ben Ziegler > -- > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:45:06 -0500 > Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Using a WD My Book 500GB Ext Drive with Ubuntu > From: dmichael.burns@gmail.com > To: qclug@qclug.org > > > I will try it on a win-blows box and see. After my post, I got to thinking > that it may not even be formatted, but who knows. Will post the results in > a bit (as soon as the wife gets off of her puter and I can try it on there). > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Allen Kiddoo wrote: > > Try it on a different computer and see if it mounts. Might be defective? > > Allen K. > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:06 PM, DMichael Burns > wrote: > > Using Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) on a Dell Inspiron 5000e > > > > Ok Gang, here is one for you. Usually I am able to figure it all out > > myself, but not this time. > > > > Saturday, I went to the Wally-World and found a Western Digital 500GB My > > Book external HDD on clearance. Sweet buy at $79. I want to use it on > my > > laptop for backup and extra storage, but I am having an issue with Ubuntu > > seeing it. > > > > I do see USB DRIVE when I look at the file manager, but the file manager > > reports, "Unable to mount location. No media in the drive." when I try > to > > open it. I try to mount it and get nothing - no error popup, or > anything. > > > > My 2GB Pen Drive works as does any 4GB SD card I put in the reader, so I > > know that there isn't an issue there. > > > > Am I unable to see it because of it's size? I know I have a bios > limitation > > for the HDD of 320GB, but I thought that it wouldn't be an issue here > > because it is under the control of the OS (or is my assumption wrong.) > > > > The drive is USB 2.0, but won't it work in a 1.0 setting (albeit slower)? > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Zonie > > > > -- > > "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved > > body, but rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn > out > > and screaming, "HOLY CRAP!!! What a ride!" > > > > ~Author Unknown > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > > > -- > "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved > body, but rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out > and screaming, "HOLY CRAP!!! What a ride!" > > ~Author Unknown > > ------------------------------ > Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on > digital tv's. Click here. > I am thinking that the usb cable is bad, because I tried it on the wife's M$ computer and it didn't work there either. Looks like another trip to Wally-World today. Zonie -- "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, "HOLY CRAP!!! What a ride!" ~Author Unknown ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/d989ec39/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From arronlorenz@gmail.com Mon Sep 14 17:26:09 2009 From: arronlorenz@gmail.com (Arron Lorenz) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:26:09 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM In-Reply-To: References: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> <1c9537490909111151u2ca865bfgfd2fc5d5808d53c@mail.gmail.com> <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2B2FFD221B@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> Message-ID: <30cf66b30909140926o61901470ibdaafe2383bf081b@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment VirtualBox is really pretty great. I use a Windows XP VM daily. I run a vinyl printer and the drivers for it are windows xp only. On a 2.2ghz Quad Core with 8gb of ram I allow the VM to run on two cores, and 3gb of ram. So for me XP runs faster then it does on many machines. I can use Illustrator CS4 and Photoshop without any issues. It automatically connects to my USB vinyl cutter, my usb vinyl printer, usb photo scanner, and graphics tablet. What's nice is when I'm not doing graphics work for the printer I can lower the window and forget about it. Cooper and I have had this discussion before. My feelings considering that a full blown Quad with 4gb+ ram, and a 640gb hd can be bought for under $300 is that the base OS just needs to be enough to bring VirtualBox to an x window. On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Chris Cooper wrote: > VirtualBox 3.0 has decent DirectX support now. I have several VM's > that I use on a daily basis and it works great. > > My only word of caution is, do not install from the debian stock > repos. Add the Virtualbox repos and use their build. instructions > for this are on their site: > http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads > > Also, to get Direct3d support, you need to install the guest tools in > safemode. More info on that can be found in the user manual: > http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#id2507577 > http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/UserManual.html#guestadd-3d > > Other than that, welcome to the virtualization kick. > > Chris > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 2:22 PM, David Hinkle > wrote: > > He doesn't need graphics acceleration, Rar is a data analysis package > used to examine and optimize a character in the game in order to make it > more powerful. It does procedural analysis on gear, weapons, and various > enhancements that can be applied to the character and other gear in order to > recommend to the user the optimal setup for various encounters he may face. > It's vital for high end encounters in the game that are much more like > serious business than actual gaming. :) > > > > I've used rawr and it will work well in virtualization. Just a note in > case it comes up, vista behaves badly under virtualization, stick to XP. > > > > > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf > Of Mark Riedesel > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:52 PM > > To: qclug@qclug.org > > Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Ready for VM > > > > The most recent virtualbox has accelerated opengl support IIRC. Though > > it may only be for Linux guests, not sure about Windows guests.. It'd > > be mentioned in a recent changelog if it was. > > > > On 9/11/09, Tim Shearouse wrote: > >> One word of warning before you start gaming in a virtualized > environment: To > >> my knowledge, no current virtualization platform has support for > DirectX. No > >> matter what hardware you have, all you're likely to be able to emulate > is > >> standard VGA graphics without 3D rendering. > >> > >> You might end up having to dual-boot. > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Barry Von Ahsen > wrote: > >> > >>> Jim Hall wrote: > >>> > >>>> So, it looks like VM is the only solution I have. I wanted to try it > >>>> anyway, > >>>> this looks like a good reason. BTW, I do have one legal copy of Win > XP. > >>>> Looks like KVM with Qemu (or Qemu alone) would be the best choice for > my > >>>> needs. Both are in the repository (along with free VMware, VirtualBox, > >>>> and > >>>> Xen) . If anyone has any comments of any kind, please feel free. > >>>> > >>> > >>> I run XP on lenny with virtualbox on my laptop with no trouble, and I'm > >>> running XP on Xen on Centos at work, but xen was a pain with debian, > which > >>> is why I went with virtualbox > >>> > >>> you'll just have to make sure you're running a kernel that has the vbox > >>> modules available, I think the package is virtualbox-ose-modules > >>> > >>> -barry > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> QCLUG mailing list > >>> QCLUG@qclug.org > >>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > QCLUG mailing list > > QCLUG@qclug.org > > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > -- From: Arron James Lorenz http://ArronLorenz.com (563) 4470-AJL Reel to Reel Drive In DavenportDriveIn.com Profit is only profitable to the extent that you can use it ~Timothy Ferris ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/2ca2d1ff/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Mon Sep 14 18:00:17 2009 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:00:17 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <4AAAB481.2020301@gmail.com> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> <1252699451.3316.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AAAB481.2020301@gmail.com> Message-ID: <997c8c1b0909141000n7169a1f0m30bcd190b60f30d6@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Rhys Black wrote: > Got one... > > Now, if I can only figure out what it's missing that I still need... > > The Quad core definitely looks good. I need a worthwhile wireless > networking card (doesn't say, so I doubt it has it). Any suggestions for > compatibility? > > ~Rhys > > > Could start with a site called LinuxDevices (i think). Or google "Linux wireless network card". Or something similar. I know there are sites that have info on compatible hardware, just can't think of any right now. Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/b45bca5c/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From pdameasap@gmail.com Mon Sep 14 18:19:25 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:19:25 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <997c8c1b0909141000n7169a1f0m30bcd190b60f30d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> <1252699451.3316.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AAAB481.2020301@gmail.com> <997c8c1b0909141000n7169a1f0m30bcd190b60f30d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AAE7B1D.5050807@gmail.com> Thanks for the gracious point in the right direction! ~Rhys Jim Hall wrote: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Rhys Black > wrote: > > Got one... > > Now, if I can only figure out what it's missing that I still need... > > The Quad core definitely looks good. I need a worthwhile wireless > networking card (doesn't say, so I doubt it has it). Any > suggestions for compatibility? > > ~Rhys > > > > Could start with a site called LinuxDevices (i think). Or google > "Linux wireless network card". Or something similar. I know there are > sites that have info on compatible hardware, just can't think of any > right now. > > Jim From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Tue Sep 15 14:57:57 2009 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:57:57 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM In-Reply-To: <30cf66b30909140926o61901470ibdaafe2383bf081b@mail.gmail.com> References: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> <1c9537490909111151u2ca865bfgfd2fc5d5808d53c@mail.gmail.com> <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2B2FFD221B@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> <30cf66b30909140926o61901470ibdaafe2383bf081b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <997c8c1b0909150657i217dc46bhf96ecaedbcbd489d@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment So. What's been posted to date looks like I should give VirtualBox a try. There being no other strong opinions, I'll get started. Thanks folks, Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/e221d574/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com Fri Sep 18 00:14:04 2009 From: roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com (Roadkill the Avatar of Misfortune) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:14:04 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] qclug server backbone change Message-ID: <200909171814.04734.roadkill-ml@darktraveler.com> Hey everyone, The isp I'm using to host the qclug server is going through a backbone and facility upgrade. Monday or tuesday evening I will be taking the server down for a while. It will be physically relocated and have it's IP address changed. Hopefully there won't be to much trouble with dns caches or anything. Sorry for the short notice on this, been quite busy, but your regularly scheduled lug should return very soon. Thanks, rk From acjohnson@pcdomain.com Mon Sep 21 19:22:09 2009 From: acjohnson@pcdomain.com (Aaron Johnson) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:22:09 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] VirtualBox - Run as a service Message-ID: <00e801ca3ae8$7745d790$65d186b0$@com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I've been working on this for a few days now and I am unable to troubleshoot this problem any further. I am trying to get VirtualBox 3.0.6 to run as a service under Ubuntu 9.04 (AMD64). So far I am able to create an init script that works but only when I manually run the script from the shell. Here's the script: #!/bin/bash ###################################### ### Start-up script for VirtualBox ### ###################################### PATH=/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin USER=vmuser01 VM_NAME="Ubuntu 9.04 Server 32-bit" MANAGE_CMD=VBoxManage case "$1" in start) sudo -H -u $USER $MANAGE_CMD startvm "$VM_NAME" --type vrdp ;; stop) sudo -H -u $USER $MANAGE_CMD controlvm "$VM_NAME" savestate ;; restart|force-reload) sudo -H -u $USER $MANAGE_CMD startvm "$VM_NAME" --type vrdp sudo -H -u $USER $MANAGE_CMD controlvm "$VM_NAME" savestate ;; *) exit 1 ;; esac exit 0 When I created the above script I saved it as /etc/init.d/VBOX-VM01 I then did the following: sudo chmod +x /etc/init.d/VBOX-VM01 sudo update-rc.d VBOX-VM01 defaults What am I doing wrong? Aaron Johnson acjohnson@pcdomain.com ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/0edd7c2a/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From austinm@countrystone.com Mon Sep 21 20:03:30 2009 From: austinm@countrystone.com (Austin Mount) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:03:30 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] VirtualBox - Run as a service In-Reply-To: <00e801ca3ae8$7745d790$65d186b0$@com> References: <00e801ca3ae8$7745d790$65d186b0$@com> Message-ID: <4AB7CE02.5030301@countrystone.com> Aaron, Pretty sure you need to be using the start stop daemon in this script... here is an example I wrote for sybase asa on a gentoo system running under its own user... #!/sbin/runscript start() { source /etc/profile ebegin "Starting Sybase SQL Anywhere" start-stop-daemon --start --chuid sybase --exec /opt/sqlanywhere11/bin64/dbsrv11 \ --pidfile /var/run/asa.pid --make-pidfile --background \ -- -n MosEisley -qw /var/db/asa/DevStartup.db -n startup eend $? "Failed to start SQL Anywhere." } stop() { source /etc/profile ebegin "Stopping Sybase SQL Anywhere" start-stop-daemon --stop --user sybase --exec /opt/sqlanywhere11/bin64/dbstop \ --pidfile /var/run/asa.pid -- -c "ENG=MosEisley;UID=dba;PWD=secret" eend $? "Failed to stop SQL Anywhere." } Then you need to add it to the default run level... gentoo is rc-update but i think ubuntu uses update-rc.d command.... ie: sudo update-rc.d yourscript defaults and make sure you're script is executeable... chmod +x /etc/init.d/script hope that helps Austin D. Mount A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS Systems Administration Application Development Web Services Office(309)787-1744x220 Cell(309)737-2086 Aaron Johnson wrote: > > I’ve been working on this for a few days now and I am unable to > troubleshoot this problem any further. > > I am trying to get VirtualBox 3.0.6 to run as a service under Ubuntu > 9.04 (AMD64). > > So far I am able to create an init script that works but _only when I > manually run the script from the shell_. > > Here’s the script: > > #!/bin/bash > > ###################################### > > ### Start-up script for VirtualBox ### > > ###################################### > > PATH=/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin > > USER=vmuser01 > > VM_NAME="Ubuntu 9.04 Server 32-bit" > > MANAGE_CMD=VBoxManage > > case "$1" in > > start) > > sudo -H -u $USER $MANAGE_CMD startvm "$VM_NAME" --type vrdp > > ;; > > stop) > > sudo -H -u $USER $MANAGE_CMD controlvm "$VM_NAME" savestate > > ;; > > restart|force-reload) > > sudo -H -u $USER $MANAGE_CMD startvm "$VM_NAME" --type vrdp > > sudo -H -u $USER $MANAGE_CMD controlvm "$VM_NAME" savestate > > ;; > > *) > > exit 1 > > ;; > > esac > > exit 0 > > When I created the above script I saved it as /etc/init.d/VBOX-VM01 > > I then did the following: > > sudo chmod +x /etc/init.d/VBOX-VM01 > > sudo update-rc.d VBOX-VM01 defaults > > What am I doing wrong? > > Aaron Johnson > > acjohnson@pcdomain.com > From pdameasap@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 17:11:13 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:11:13 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <997c8c1b0909141000n7169a1f0m30bcd190b60f30d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> <1252699451.3316.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AAAB481.2020301@gmail.com> <997c8c1b0909141000n7169a1f0m30bcd190b60f30d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ABB9A21.6030606@gmail.com> Hmm... well, I got the new Gateway AMD Quad-core from Woot in the mail the other day and have been playing with it, since. At base, it seems to be head and shoulders better than my bloated old system so I'm looking at making it my new primary. The new computer came with Vista Home Premium pre-installed (with a license/key but unfortunately w/o a disc) so it seemed like it would be the path of least resistance to keep that on it. However, I've been wanting to nuke/reformat my other computer for some time, now. As it seems that the new computer will be a worthy replacement and the best web server for what I'm going to be doing (Nginx for load balancing and support for an extreme number of open connections for long polling) seems to be significantly more production stable on Linux I am looking at keeping both systems but making the old one into some flavor of Linux. So, today I'm backing up stuff on the old computer and looking into getting it reformatted and installed as Linux. Here's the information I have. From past experience, I enjoyed working with SuSE Linux. I ran a dual boot with that and Windows 98 several years back (bought the SuSE 8.0 box, support, etc.) and found it to be extremely easy to use, provided one stuck to the admittedly comprehensive packages contained within the DVD set. The only real problems I had were that some devices didn't have drivers, the monitor was limited to 60 Hz refresh (which gave me chronic headaches), I couldn't figure out how to get anything packaged as an RPM to install correctly so was limited to the prepackaged stuff, although I partitioned everything as FAT32 I never did get the different OSs to read one another's files, and at one point SuSE farted and corrupted the Windows partition (how rude, yet apropos, of it). Needless to say, that last problem was pretty much it for the time being. Now, evaluating Linux distributions I looked back at SuSE figuring that the problems I had would probably have been resolved in the intervening time. In the meantime, though... SuSE was bought out by Novell (WTF?), who apparently just made a big, apparently controversial deal with MS (WTMuthaF?)... and I'm left wondering if I should just... go with something else :-D So, here's what I'm planning on using it for. I run all kinds of server stuff. In particular, I'm going to be running one or more web, FTP, mail, and other servers. I am going to pretty much have it on all the time. I need for it to be fairly easy to get up and running at base, but - at least up to a certain point - I am willing to mess with it for features which may make my life easier down the road, like scalable high performance web services requiring low resources. I have a little experience with Unix/Linux, with my previous SuSE experience and a Sun Solaris Unix course which I did extremely well in but which I took quite a while ago. Lastly, I am a programmer, but haven't done too much programming for Unix except for some remotely executed and compiled C and Java in college (have done a lot on Windows, though) and have built and upgraded a few computers over the years so am at least somewhat technically inclined. With that in mind (TMI, I know) any thoughts on what distro to go with? I hear Ubuntu is worthwhile, but haven't used it personally. I used Red Hat a bit when I was in the Unix class, but... I think I preferred SuSE. ~Rhys Jim Hall wrote: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Rhys Black > wrote: > > Got one... > > Now, if I can only figure out what it's missing that I still need... > > The Quad core definitely looks good. I need a worthwhile wireless > networking card (doesn't say, so I doubt it has it). Any > suggestions for compatibility? > > ~Rhys > > > > Could start with a site called LinuxDevices (i think). Or google > "Linux wireless network card". Or something similar. I know there are > sites that have info on compatible hardware, just can't think of any > right now. > > Jim From dbergert@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 17:11:29 2009 From: dbergert@gmail.com (Dave Bergert) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:11:29 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <4ABB9A21.6030606@gmail.com> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9537B.5090405@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> <1252699451.3316.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AAAB481.2020301@gmail.com> <997c8c1b0909141000n7169a1f0m30bcd190b60f30d6@mail.gmail.com> <4ABB9A21.6030606@gmail.com> Message-ID: <44262bfc0909240911o2b926b29mbce9c4d6ef32bb88@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment My Choices are typically: debian stable or CentOS / RHEL for server side, and Ubuntu for desktop work. On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Rhys Black wrote: > Hmm... well, I got the new Gateway AMD Quad-core from Woot in the mail the > other day and have been playing with it, since. At base, it seems to be > head and shoulders better than my bloated old system so I'm looking at > making it my new primary. The new computer came with Vista Home Premium > pre-installed (with a license/key but unfortunately w/o a disc) so it seemed > like it would be the path of least resistance to keep that on it. > > However, I've been wanting to nuke/reformat my other computer for some > time, now. As it seems that the new computer will be a worthy replacement > and the best web server for what I'm going to be doing (Nginx for load > balancing and support for an extreme number of open connections for long > polling) seems to be significantly more production stable on Linux I am > looking at keeping both systems but making the old one into some flavor of > Linux. So, today I'm backing up stuff on the old computer and looking into > getting it reformatted and installed as Linux. > > Here's the information I have. From past experience, I enjoyed working > with SuSE Linux. I ran a dual boot with that and Windows 98 several years > back (bought the SuSE 8.0 box, support, etc.) and found it to be extremely > easy to use, provided one stuck to the admittedly comprehensive packages > contained within the DVD set. The only real problems I had were that some > devices didn't have drivers, the monitor was limited to 60 Hz refresh (which > gave me chronic headaches), I couldn't figure out how to get anything > packaged as an RPM to install correctly so was limited to the prepackaged > stuff, although I partitioned everything as FAT32 I never did get the > different OSs to read one another's files, and at one point SuSE farted and > corrupted the Windows partition (how rude, yet apropos, of it). Needless to > say, that last problem was pretty much it for the time being. > > Now, evaluating Linux distributions I looked back at SuSE figuring that the > problems I had would probably have been resolved in the intervening time. > In the meantime, though... SuSE was bought out by Novell (WTF?), who > apparently just made a big, apparently controversial deal with MS > (WTMuthaF?)... and I'm left wondering if I should just... go with something > else :-D > > So, here's what I'm planning on using it for. I run all kinds of server > stuff. In particular, I'm going to be running one or more web, FTP, mail, > and other servers. I am going to pretty much have it on all the time. I > need for it to be fairly easy to get up and running at base, but - at least > up to a certain point - I am willing to mess with it for features which may > make my life easier down the road, like scalable high performance web > services requiring low resources. I have a little experience with > Unix/Linux, with my previous SuSE experience and a Sun Solaris Unix course > which I did extremely well in but which I took quite a while ago. Lastly, I > am a programmer, but haven't done too much programming for Unix except for > some remotely executed and compiled C and Java in college (have done a lot > on Windows, though) and have built and upgraded a few computers over the > years so am at least somewhat technically inclined. > > With that in mind (TMI, I know) any thoughts on what distro to go with? I > hear Ubuntu is worthwhile, but haven't used it personally. I used Red Hat a > bit when I was in the Unix class, but... I think I preferred SuSE. > > ~Rhys > > Jim Hall wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Rhys Black > pdameasap@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Got one... >> >> Now, if I can only figure out what it's missing that I still need... >> >> The Quad core definitely looks good. I need a worthwhile wireless >> networking card (doesn't say, so I doubt it has it). Any >> suggestions for compatibility? >> >> ~Rhys >> >> >> >> Could start with a site called LinuxDevices (i think). Or google "Linux >> wireless network card". Or something similar. I know there are sites that >> have info on compatible hardware, just can't think of any right now. >> >> Jim >> > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/735fe07f/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From tgoltz@QuietSoftware.com Thu Sep 24 21:25:14 2009 From: tgoltz@QuietSoftware.com (Tom Goltz) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:25:14 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> At 11:11 AM 9/24/2009, Rhys Black wrote: >Now, evaluating Linux distributions I looked back at SuSE figuring that >the problems I had would probably have been resolved in the intervening >time. In the meantime, though... SuSE was bought out by Novell (WTF?), >who apparently just made a big, apparently controversial deal with MS >(WTMuthaF?)... and I'm left wondering if I should just... go with >something else :-D Sadly, my post-Novell SUSE experiences have not been positive. One of the early changes was to completely rewrite the YAST package manager and introduce a new online update facility that was catastrophically broken....even after manually downloading and applying the patches that were supposed to fix it, I found that updates only worked about every other blue moon, and when they did work, the total time was measured in HOURS. It was reasonably stable when I wasn't trying to update/patch the system, but their early attempts to implement appArmor were highly problematic and required extensive tweaking to support my pretty generic LAMP/Email server facility. After suffering through two major releases that still had YAST problems, I abandoned SUSE. Prior to SUSE, I tried Mandrake, but my overall experience was that each newer release was less stable than it's predecessor. I used to be a pretty hard-core RedHat person, and purchased copies of virtually every release up until they dropped the ordinary Red Hat Linux in favor of the massively more expensive Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Sadly, Red Hat's annual support costs for RHEL makes Microsoft Windows Server look affordable, so I moved on. I played with some of the RHEL-based builds like WhiteBox and CentOS, but found the availability of patches and updates to be uncomfortably erratic. Red Hat has always been rather quirky, and tends to build a highly unique blend of packages and libraries with bug-fixes from newer versions back-ported into older versions without always clearly identifying what is vanilla and what has been tweaked. As Red Hat's percentage of the total Linux installed base has dropped, I've tripped across incompatibilities between Red Hat and third-party packages with increasing frequency. RHEL is still my version of choice for clients who demand high levels of vendor support. These days I'm generally running the current Ubuntu LTS release on my servers, and keep my Linux desktop at the bleeding edge Ubuntu versions. From m.sweet83@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 23:16:47 2009 From: m.sweet83@gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:16:47 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> Message-ID: <4ABBEFCF.6090206@gmail.com> Tom Goltz wrote: > Sadly, my post-Novell SUSE experiences have not been positive. One of > the early changes was to completely rewrite the YAST package manager > and introduce a new online update facility that was catastrophically > broken....even after manually downloading and applying the patches > that were supposed to fix it, I found that updates only worked about > every other blue moon, and when they did work, the total time was > measured in HOURS. It was reasonably stable when I wasn't trying to > update/patch the system, but their early attempts to implement > appArmor were highly problematic and required extensive tweaking to > support my pretty generic LAMP/Email server facility. After suffering > through two major releases that still had YAST problems, I abandoned > SUSE. > > Prior to SUSE, I tried Mandrake, but my overall experience was that > each newer release was less stable than it's predecessor. > > I used to be a pretty hard-core RedHat person, and purchased copies of > virtually every release up until they dropped the ordinary Red Hat > Linux in favor of the massively more expensive Red Hat Enterprise > Linux. Sadly, Red Hat's annual support costs for RHEL makes Microsoft > Windows Server look affordable, so I moved on. I played with some of > the RHEL-based builds like WhiteBox and CentOS, but found the > availability of patches and updates to be uncomfortably erratic. > > Red Hat has always been rather quirky, and tends to build a highly > unique blend of packages and libraries with bug-fixes from newer > versions back-ported into older versions without always clearly > identifying what is vanilla and what has been tweaked. As Red Hat's > percentage of the total Linux installed base has dropped, I've tripped > across incompatibilities between Red Hat and third-party packages with > increasing frequency. RHEL is still my version of choice for clients > who demand high levels of vendor support. > > These days I'm generally running the current Ubuntu LTS release on my > servers, and keep my Linux desktop at the bleeding edge Ubuntu versions. > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug I'm relatively new to Linux. I've installed older versions in the past (Mandrake 7.0, Red Hat, etc.), but always resorted to Windows out of convenience. Not to complain about MS, but I was rather fed up with their bulky OS and constant problem fixes. Don't get me wrong, I have tinkered with many a Linux distro, but never had the time to learn and optimize it's total functionality. So, being a newbie, I picked up Ubuntu. Clean install, complete drivers (the drivers I didn't have were readily accessible), and complete freedom. I'm not sure if Linux has evolved or Ubuntu was designed this way, but i'm free from MS. I hear d someone say, "Ubuntu is Linux for Windows users." -That might be true, but it allowed me to start an easy transition to a wonderful alternative. With a laptop running Ubuntu Desktop (Jaunty) and a server in the basement, I can now take the time to learn the basics of Linux AND utilize it's functionality to complete the work on my desk. Will I stick with Ubuntu? Maybe. I plan on exploring other distros. The next step would logically be Debian. Any input on this would be terrific. In closing, as a recovering ex-Windows user, Ubuntu is a fine operating system. From pdameasap@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 23:53:49 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:53:49 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> Message-ID: <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> Tom Goltz wrote: > At 11:11 AM 9/24/2009, Rhys Black wrote: >> Now, evaluating Linux distributions I looked back at SuSE figuring that >> the problems I had would probably have been resolved in the intervening >> time. In the meantime, though... SuSE was bought out by Novell (WTF?), >> who apparently just made a big, apparently controversial deal with MS >> (WTMuthaF?)... and I'm left wondering if I should just... go with >> something else :-D > > Sadly, my post-Novell SUSE experiences have not been positive. One of > the early changes was to completely rewrite the YAST package manager > and introduce a new online update facility that was catastrophically > broken....even after manually downloading and applying the patches > that were supposed to fix it, I found that updates only worked about > every other blue moon, and when they did work, the total time was > measured in HOURS. It was reasonably stable when I wasn't trying to > update/patch the system, but their early attempts to implement > appArmor were highly problematic and required extensive tweaking to > support my pretty generic LAMP/Email server facility. After suffering > through two major releases that still had YAST problems, I abandoned > SUSE. Yeah, you know, I think the stability of YaST was the thing I liked the most. I never had one thing fail which was packaged with the installation DVD. It was unreal. Your use cases sound identical to my own, at least to start with. I'm looking into other web servers for some very specific requirements of my own. > Prior to SUSE, I tried Mandrake, but my overall experience was that > each newer release was less stable than it's predecessor. Hmm... well, stability is very important to me right now. > I used to be a pretty hard-core RedHat person, and purchased copies of > virtually every release up until they dropped the ordinary Red Hat > Linux in favor of the massively more expensive Red Hat Enterprise > Linux. Sadly, Red Hat's annual support costs for RHEL makes Microsoft > Windows Server look affordable, so I moved on. I played with some of > the RHEL-based builds like WhiteBox and CentOS, but found the > availability of patches and updates to be uncomfortably erratic. The prevailing advice I've gotten on the IRC channels is to go with CentOS or Fedora - I'm told preferably CentOS because it has a longer development cycle - produces stable servers, and comes with many desired server-side packages pre-configured. But, one of my main requirements is that it be easy to set up out of the box to at least a base configuration and although I have run Linux before it's been a while and I never did get it working all the way. I think that was mostly because the RPM stuff didn't work on SuSE at the time, though. If it would have I think I would have been fine. So... I downloaded the CentOS installation file and am in the process of backing up things as well as possible before changing over to the new computer and nuking the old one before putting Linux on it. Is CentOS a really non-noob-friendly flavor, or you think with my background (and some gracious help from this LUG) I may be able to make it work? > Red Hat has always been rather quirky, and tends to build a highly > unique blend of packages and libraries with bug-fixes from newer > versions back-ported into older versions without always clearly > identifying what is vanilla and what has been tweaked. As Red Hat's > percentage of the total Linux installed base has dropped, I've tripped > across incompatibilities between Red Hat and third-party packages with > increasing frequency. RHEL is still my version of choice for clients > who demand high levels of vendor support. As I don't really want to pay for support, I wonder if I should maybe stay away from RHEL, and - by extension - Fedora and CentOS. Incompatibilities with third-party packages sounds like a complete nightmare because I feel as though I often use stuff like that. > These days I'm generally running the current Ubuntu LTS release on my > servers, and keep my Linux desktop at the bleeding edge Ubuntu versions. > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug Ubuntu does sound attractive if it's specifically targeted at Windows users. God knows I don't need more stress and the increased sense of familiarity would be welcome. At this point, though, I've got to wonder if it may be more important that the server be stable and as scalable as possible in its server duties. ~Rhys From pdameasap@gmail.com Thu Sep 24 23:59:40 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:59:40 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <4ABBEFCF.6090206@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBEFCF.6090206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ABBF9DC.9000709@gmail.com> Matthew wrote: > Tom Goltz wrote: >> Sadly, my post-Novell SUSE experiences have not been positive. One >> of the early changes was to completely rewrite the YAST package >> manager and introduce a new online update facility that was >> catastrophically broken....even after manually downloading and >> applying the patches that were supposed to fix it, I found that >> updates only worked about every other blue moon, and when they did >> work, the total time was measured in HOURS. It was reasonably stable >> when I wasn't trying to update/patch the system, but their early >> attempts to implement appArmor were highly problematic and required >> extensive tweaking to support my pretty generic LAMP/Email server >> facility. After suffering through two major releases that still had >> YAST problems, I abandoned SUSE. >> >> Prior to SUSE, I tried Mandrake, but my overall experience was that >> each newer release was less stable than it's predecessor. >> >> I used to be a pretty hard-core RedHat person, and purchased copies >> of virtually every release up until they dropped the ordinary Red Hat >> Linux in favor of the massively more expensive Red Hat Enterprise >> Linux. Sadly, Red Hat's annual support costs for RHEL makes >> Microsoft Windows Server look affordable, so I moved on. I played >> with some of the RHEL-based builds like WhiteBox and CentOS, but >> found the availability of patches and updates to be uncomfortably >> erratic. >> >> Red Hat has always been rather quirky, and tends to build a highly >> unique blend of packages and libraries with bug-fixes from newer >> versions back-ported into older versions without always clearly >> identifying what is vanilla and what has been tweaked. As Red Hat's >> percentage of the total Linux installed base has dropped, I've >> tripped across incompatibilities between Red Hat and third-party >> packages with increasing frequency. RHEL is still my version of >> choice for clients who demand high levels of vendor support. >> >> These days I'm generally running the current Ubuntu LTS release on my >> servers, and keep my Linux desktop at the bleeding edge Ubuntu versions. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > I'm relatively new to Linux. I've installed older versions in the past > (Mandrake 7.0, Red Hat, etc.), but always resorted to Windows out of > convenience. Not to complain about MS, but I was rather fed up with > their bulky OS and constant problem fixes. Don't get me wrong, I have > tinkered with many a Linux distro, but never had the time to learn and > optimize it's total functionality. So, being a newbie, I picked up > Ubuntu. > > Clean install, complete drivers (the drivers I didn't have were > readily accessible), and complete freedom. I'm not sure if Linux has > evolved or Ubuntu was designed this way, but i'm free from MS. I hear > d someone say, "Ubuntu is Linux for Windows users." -That might be > true, but it allowed me to start an easy transition to a wonderful > alternative. With a laptop running Ubuntu Desktop (Jaunty) and a > server in the basement, I can now take the time to learn the basics of > Linux AND utilize it's functionality to complete the work on my desk. > > Will I stick with Ubuntu? Maybe. I plan on exploring other distros. > The next step would logically be Debian. Any input on this would be > terrific. > > In closing, as a recovering ex-Windows user, Ubuntu is a fine > operating system. > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug I read this as a second vote for Ubuntu. I don't know, the thing needs to be a server but to be honest the previous server was Windows XP, and not even Pro, HE. I bet anything would be more stable than that, and more scalable to boot. That being said, I looked at some reviews for CentOS and I really enjoyed some of the tweaks they had on it, such as working with larger file sizes, clustering (which I really will need and was not looking forward to configuring), and a few other things. I feel so wishy-washy, but by the same token I'm likely to stick with whatever I choose and will therefore be suffering whatever consequences there are for quite some time to come, so it's a big deal. If anyone has any more input, keep it coming, but I'd like to thank those who have responded for sharing their experiences. It really does help narrow the field. ~Rhys From m.sweet83@gmail.com Fri Sep 25 00:42:36 2009 From: m.sweet83@gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:42:36 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> Rhys Black wrote: > Ubuntu does sound attractive if it's specifically targeted at Windows > users. God knows I don't need more stress and the increased sense of > familiarity would be welcome. At this point, though, I've got to > wonder if it may be more important that the server be stable and as > scalable as possible in its server duties. > > ~Rhys > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > Although my security experience is limited to Windows Server and Exchange, i've had no problems so far with Ubuntu. give it some time and there will be vulnerabilities... If I encounter any issues, I will be sure to post. As far as stable and scalable, I don't think I could provide much input. I'm only running a WordPress blog and a forum. Minimum bandwidth. If I end up going for more demanding purposes, we'll find out. -haha. Best of luck, though...I hope you find what you're looking for. From austinm@countrystone.com Fri Sep 25 01:43:16 2009 From: austinm@countrystone.com (Austin Mount) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:43:16 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> Ubuntu is easy to use and works ok, but isn't real stable. It definitely does not scale at all. Might just be relative to my experiences with gentoo... I would put it in the same boat as Suse, Red Hat, Fedora etc... Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a lot of time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an ubuntu system. If you want something easy, stable, and scales nicely I would recommend slackware. I myself am a gentoo guy and wouldn't run anything but on my servers. Of course gentoo is not for a noob. It can be rough the first time you do a manual installation, but you do learn a lot about linux which can only help you if you're going to be a linux admin. There is a relatively new distro called Calculate Linux based on gentoo that looks to be promising for an out of the box server or client solution. It looks to greatly lower the learning curve of gentoo while still getting most of its benefits. Anywho just my two cents... On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:42:36 -0500, Matthew wrote: > Rhys Black wrote: >> Ubuntu does sound attractive if it's specifically targeted at Windows >> users. God knows I don't need more stress and the increased sense of >> familiarity would be welcome. At this point, though, I've got to >> wonder if it may be more important that the server be stable and as >> scalable as possible in its server duties. >> >> ~Rhys >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >> > Although my security experience is limited to Windows Server and > Exchange, i've had no problems so far with Ubuntu. give it some time and > there will be vulnerabilities... > If I encounter any issues, I will be sure to post. > > As far as stable and scalable, I don't think I could provide much input. > I'm only running a WordPress blog and a forum. Minimum bandwidth. If I > end up going for more demanding purposes, we'll find out. -haha. Best of > luck, though...I hope you find what you're looking for. > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug -- Austin D. Mount A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS Systems Administration Application Development Web Services Office(309)787-1744x220 Cell(309)737-2086 From adk@52761.com Fri Sep 25 03:41:42 2009 From: adk@52761.com (Allen Kiddoo) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:41:42 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> Message-ID: <678823f00909241941m54d541d5j42a0c78da26b9d95@mail.gmail.com> CentOS=3D 5 year support Step by step instructions- i386 setup- http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-centos-4.8-i386-ispconfig-2 x86_64 setup- http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-centos-4.8-x86_64-ispconfig-2 Allen Kiddoo On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Austin Mount wr= ote: > Ubuntu is easy to use and works ok, but isn't real stable. =A0It definite= ly > does not scale at all. =A0Might just be relative to my experiences with > gentoo... =A0I would put it in the same boat as Suse, Red Hat, Fedora etc= ... > Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! =A0I spend a lot o= f > time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an > ubuntu system. > > If you want something easy, stable, and scales nicely I would recommend > slackware. I myself am a gentoo guy and wouldn't run anything but on my > servers. Of course gentoo is not for a noob. It can be rough the first ti= me > you do a manual installation, but you do learn a lot about linux which ca= n > only help you if you're going to be a linux admin. =A0There is a relative= ly > new distro called Calculate Linux based on gentoo that looks to be > promising for an out of the box server or client solution. =A0It looks to > greatly lower the learning curve of gentoo while still getting most of it= s > benefits. > > Anywho just my two cents... > > On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:42:36 -0500, Matthew wrote: >> Rhys Black wrote: >>> Ubuntu does sound attractive if it's specifically targeted at Windows >>> users. =A0God knows I don't need more stress and the increased sense of >>> familiarity would be welcome. =A0At this point, though, I've got to >>> wonder if it may be more important that the server be stable and as >>> scalable as possible in its server duties. >>> >>> ~Rhys >>> _______________________________________________ >>> QCLUG mailing list >>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >>> >> Although my security experience is limited to Windows Server and >> Exchange, i've had no problems so far with Ubuntu. give it some time and > >> there will be vulnerabilities... >> If I encounter any issues, I will be sure to post. >> >> As far as stable and scalable, I don't think I could provide much input. > >> I'm only running a WordPress blog and a forum. Minimum bandwidth. If I >> end up going for more demanding purposes, we'll find out. -haha. Best of > >> luck, though...I hope you find what you're looking for. >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > -- > Austin D. Mount > A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS > Systems Administration > Application Development > Web Services > Office(309)787-1744x220 > Cell(309)737-2086 > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > From adk@52761.com Fri Sep 25 03:48:27 2009 From: adk@52761.com (Allen Kiddoo) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:48:27 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <678823f00909241941m54d541d5j42a0c78da26b9d95@mail.gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <678823f00909241941m54d541d5j42a0c78da26b9d95@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <678823f00909241948n3472803bi8ea2975377b5f855@mail.gmail.com> Then for desktop- http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-pclinuxos-2009.1 It is a 'rolling update' distro- never have to reinstall. Hardware probing is first class. Live cd- try it out and install from live disk. Hint- you have to be 'guest' to start installer. Be careful with the partitioner. Allen Kiddoo On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Allen Kiddoo wrote: > CentOS=3D 5 year support > > Step by step instructions- > > i386 setup- > http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-centos-4.8-i386-ispconfig-2 > > x86_64 setup- > http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-centos-4.8-x86_64-ispconfig-2 > > Allen Kiddoo > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Austin Mount = wrote: >> Ubuntu is easy to use and works ok, but isn't real stable. =A0It definit= ely >> does not scale at all. =A0Might just be relative to my experiences with >> gentoo... =A0I would put it in the same boat as Suse, Red Hat, Fedora et= c... >> Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! =A0I spend a lot = of >> time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an >> ubuntu system. >> >> If you want something easy, stable, and scales nicely I would recommend >> slackware. I myself am a gentoo guy and wouldn't run anything but on my >> servers. Of course gentoo is not for a noob. It can be rough the first t= ime >> you do a manual installation, but you do learn a lot about linux which c= an >> only help you if you're going to be a linux admin. =A0There is a relativ= ely >> new distro called Calculate Linux based on gentoo that looks to be >> promising for an out of the box server or client solution. =A0It looks t= o >> greatly lower the learning curve of gentoo while still getting most of i= ts >> benefits. >> >> Anywho just my two cents... >> >> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:42:36 -0500, Matthew wrote: >>> Rhys Black wrote: >>>> Ubuntu does sound attractive if it's specifically targeted at Windows >>>> users. =A0God knows I don't need more stress and the increased sense o= f >>>> familiarity would be welcome. =A0At this point, though, I've got to >>>> wonder if it may be more important that the server be stable and as >>>> scalable as possible in its server duties. >>>> >>>> ~Rhys >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> QCLUG mailing list >>>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >>>> >>> Although my security experience is limited to Windows Server and >>> Exchange, i've had no problems so far with Ubuntu. give it some time an= d >> >>> there will be vulnerabilities... >>> If I encounter any issues, I will be sure to post. >>> >>> As far as stable and scalable, I don't think I could provide much input= . >> >>> I'm only running a WordPress blog and a forum. Minimum bandwidth. If I >>> end up going for more demanding purposes, we'll find out. -haha. Best o= f >> >>> luck, though...I hope you find what you're looking for. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> QCLUG mailing list >>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >> >> -- >> Austin D. Mount >> A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS >> Systems Administration >> Application Development >> Web Services >> Office(309)787-1744x220 >> Cell(309)737-2086 >> _______________________________________________ >> QCLUG mailing list >> QCLUG@qclug.org >> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >> > From tgoltz@QuietSoftware.com Fri Sep 25 04:36:51 2009 From: tgoltz@QuietSoftware.com (Tom Goltz) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:36:51 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Re: QCLUG Digest, Vol 1058, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <20090925004325.B4049212084@mail.quietsoftware.com> References: <20090925004325.B4049212084@mail.quietsoftware.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924222623.0295d298@QuietSoftware.com> At 07:43 PM 9/24/2009, Rhys Black wrote: >The prevailing advice I've gotten on the IRC channels is to go with >CentOS or Fedora - I'm told preferably CentOS because it has a longer >development cycle - produces stable servers, and comes with many desired >server-side packages pre-configured. CentOS is basically RHEL with the binaries built from the GPL source released by Red Hat and provided for free. It's probably the easiest way to run RHEL if you don't want to pay Red Hat, but will also instantly cease to exist if Red Hat ever goes away. Fedora has had a rocky history: Originally spawned as a "community project" that was supposed to fill the hole left by Red Hat's abandonment of Red Hat Linux, the first couple of Fedora releases were simply awful. The feedback I've received on the more recent efforts is that they have improved greatly, partly due to increased re-involvement by paid Red Hat people. It's touted as being the testbed for what will eventually be folded into RHEL. The early problems for Fedora forced me to look for alternatives, and I've never had a reason to go back. >But, one of my main requirements is that it be easy to set up out of >the box to at least a base >configuration and although I have run Linux before it's been a while and >I never did get it working all the way. Then I'd definitely start with Ubuntu - definitely one of the most polished and user-friendly on the installation front. >Is CentOS a really non-noob-friendly flavor, or you think with my >background (and some gracious help from this LUG) I may be able to make >it work? It's RHEL - no better, no worse. I'm probably the wrong person to ask about it's relative ease - I started seriously with Linux back in 1996 when you still had to re-compile the early v1 kernel to include the correct drivers to match your hardware. Everything since those days has seemed pretty easy. From pdameasap@gmail.com Fri Sep 25 07:58:22 2009 From: pdameasap@gmail.com (Rhys Black) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 01:58:22 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <678823f00909241948n3472803bi8ea2975377b5f855@mail.gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <678823f00909241941m54d541d5j42a0c78da26b9d95@mail.gmail.com> <678823f00909241948n3472803bi8ea2975377b5f855@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ABC6A0E.3010708@gmail.com> Thanks very much for the step by step stuff, Allen! I'm going to hit that hard in the coming weeks. ~Rhys Allen Kiddoo wrote: > Then for desktop- > > http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-pclinuxos-2009.1 > > It is a 'rolling update' distro- never have to reinstall. Hardware > probing is first class. Live cd- try it out and install from live > disk. Hint- you have to be 'guest' to start installer. Be careful with > the partitioner. > > Allen Kiddoo > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Allen Kiddoo wrote: > >> CentOS= 5 year support >> >> Step by step instructions- >> >> i386 setup- >> http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-centos-4.8-i386-ispconfig-2 >> >> x86_64 setup- >> http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-centos-4.8-x86_64-ispconfig-2 >> >> Allen Kiddoo >> >> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Austin Mount wrote: >> >>> Ubuntu is easy to use and works ok, but isn't real stable. It definitely >>> does not scale at all. Might just be relative to my experiences with >>> gentoo... I would put it in the same boat as Suse, Red Hat, Fedora etc... >>> Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a lot of >>> time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an >>> ubuntu system. >>> >>> If you want something easy, stable, and scales nicely I would recommend >>> slackware. I myself am a gentoo guy and wouldn't run anything but on my >>> servers. Of course gentoo is not for a noob. It can be rough the first time >>> you do a manual installation, but you do learn a lot about linux which can >>> only help you if you're going to be a linux admin. There is a relatively >>> new distro called Calculate Linux based on gentoo that looks to be >>> promising for an out of the box server or client solution. It looks to >>> greatly lower the learning curve of gentoo while still getting most of its >>> benefits. >>> >>> Anywho just my two cents... >>> >>> On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:42:36 -0500, Matthew wrote: >>> >>>> Rhys Black wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ubuntu does sound attractive if it's specifically targeted at Windows >>>>> users. God knows I don't need more stress and the increased sense of >>>>> familiarity would be welcome. At this point, though, I've got to >>>>> wonder if it may be more important that the server be stable and as >>>>> scalable as possible in its server duties. >>>>> >>>>> ~Rhys >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> QCLUG mailing list >>>>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>>>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Although my security experience is limited to Windows Server and >>>> Exchange, i've had no problems so far with Ubuntu. give it some time and >>>> >>>> there will be vulnerabilities... >>>> If I encounter any issues, I will be sure to post. >>>> >>>> As far as stable and scalable, I don't think I could provide much input. >>>> >>>> I'm only running a WordPress blog and a forum. Minimum bandwidth. If I >>>> end up going for more demanding purposes, we'll find out. -haha. Best of >>>> >>>> luck, though...I hope you find what you're looking for. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> QCLUG mailing list >>>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >>>> >>> -- >>> Austin D. Mount >>> A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS >>> Systems Administration >>> Application Development >>> Web Services >>> Office(309)787-1744x220 >>> Cell(309)737-2086 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> QCLUG mailing list >>> QCLUG@qclug.org >>> http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Fri Sep 25 18:48:56 2009 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:48:56 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Linux HCL ~ $300 In-Reply-To: <44262bfc0909240911o2b926b29mbce9c4d6ef32bb88@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AA94827.80002@gmail.com> <4AA9690A.4060509@gmail.com> <1252699451.3316.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AAAB481.2020301@gmail.com> <997c8c1b0909141000n7169a1f0m30bcd190b60f30d6@mail.gmail.com> <4ABB9A21.6030606@gmail.com> <44262bfc0909240911o2b926b29mbce9c4d6ef32bb88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <997c8c1b0909251048o7bbeac17pbd880778065236ac@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Dave Bergert wrote: > My Choices are typically: > > debian stable or CentOS / RHEL for server side, > and Ubuntu for desktop work. > > I second Debian stable (Lenny). Server use is solid. Desktop is usable if a touch lengthy to personalize for your use. A good desktop might also be Mepis (Debian stable with newer KDE). I use both. Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/2be2b0b6/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Fri Sep 25 18:54:34 2009 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:54:34 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <4ABC6A0E.3010708@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <678823f00909241941m54d541d5j42a0c78da26b9d95@mail.gmail.com> <678823f00909241948n3472803bi8ea2975377b5f855@mail.gmail.com> <4ABC6A0E.3010708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <997c8c1b0909251054o617230d0wfce341a8f171ab7a@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:58 AM, Rhys Black wrote: > Thanks very much for the step by step stuff, Allen! I'm going to hit that > hard in the coming weeks. > > ~Rhys > > > > Actually, it sounds like you might like Mepis. I think it's even friendlier than Ubuntu. https://www.mepis.org/ Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/214e85bf/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From brandongriffis@gmail.com Fri Sep 25 19:05:14 2009 From: brandongriffis@gmail.com (Brandon Griffis) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:05:14 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <997c8c1b0909251054o617230d0wfce341a8f171ab7a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <678823f00909241941m54d541d5j42a0c78da26b9d95@mail.gmail.com> <678823f00909241948n3472803bi8ea2975377b5f855@mail.gmail.com> <4ABC6A0E.3010708@gmail.com> <997c8c1b0909251054o617230d0wfce341a8f171ab7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9089dcd30909251105m2e526822m9a17db03fe96a42c@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment For desktop I've been running Mint for a little while now. Was using Mepis, but when they dropped from an Ubuntu base to a direct debian base they seemed to lose too many little niceties. Mint is much like Mepis was, built on Ubuntu except it actually works. Has the best hardware detection and autoconfig that I've ever found in a Linux distro http://www.linuxmint.com/ For personal severs I tend to use either Ubuntu Server LTS or if I'm looking to build it and forget it Debian Stable. In the business world I sadly keep having to fight with RPM based distros. Mainly RHEL. So if you're looking to learn for the purpose of job hunting, CentOS will probably serve you best as a teaching tool, but please don't think less of Linux as a whole for the issues/limitations. I also did Gentoo for many years. It's also a great teaching distro if you really want to get down to understanding code compiling and dependencies. And you can build some really cool stuff with Gentoo, but it's a long process getting there. If you're looking for something that "just works" I'd recommend skipping Gentoo for now. -B On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Jim Hall wrote: > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:58 AM, Rhys Black wrote: > >> Thanks very much for the step by step stuff, Allen! I'm going to hit that >> hard in the coming weeks. >> >> ~Rhys >> >> >> >> > > > Actually, it sounds like you might like Mepis. I think it's even friendlier > than Ubuntu. > https://www.mepis.org/ > > > Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/e286d803/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Fri Sep 25 19:07:19 2009 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:07:19 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Ready for VM In-Reply-To: <997c8c1b0909150657i217dc46bhf96ecaedbcbd489d@mail.gmail.com> References: <997c8c1b0909111036y2f1b18afsae1637ff3e0634ca@mail.gmail.com> <4AAA95D5.7060505@vonahsen.com> <1c9537490909111151u2ca865bfgfd2fc5d5808d53c@mail.gmail.com> <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2B2FFD221B@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> <30cf66b30909140926o61901470ibdaafe2383bf081b@mail.gmail.com> <997c8c1b0909150657i217dc46bhf96ecaedbcbd489d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <997c8c1b0909251107o39fc4ca4p7bb2b112d8dd638a@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Jim Hall wrote: > So. What's been posted to date looks like I should give VirtualBox a try. > There being no other strong opinions, I'll get started. > > Thanks folks, > Jim > > > Ya Ba Daba Do! It all works. Short version: from the Sun site I added the repository and the key; from Synaptic installed VirtualBox; created a VM; installed XP Pro (SP3 - .NET 3.5 SP1; installed the additions; a few tweaks; installed Rawr; it works! Should mention that I had the manual open and read most of it while doing the above. Highly recommend doing that. Thanks again for the help, folks. Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/16998e7a/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From vorlon@dodds.net Fri Sep 25 22:15:47 2009 From: vorlon@dodds.net (Steve Langasek) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:15:47 -0700 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <4ABBEFCF.6090206@gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBEFCF.6090206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090925211545.GA7601@dario.dodds.net> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 05:16:47PM -0500, Matthew wrote: > Clean install, complete drivers (the drivers I didn't have were > readily accessible), and complete freedom. I'm not sure if Linux has > evolved or Ubuntu was designed this way, but i'm free from MS. I > hear d someone say, "Ubuntu is Linux for Windows users." -That might > be true, Nah. Ubuntu is "Linux for Human Beings" - you don't have to use Windows to be human. :) > Will I stick with Ubuntu? Maybe. I plan on exploring other distros. > The next step would logically be Debian. Any input on this would be > terrific. Ubuntu and Debian are both great! >:) --=20 Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/a6388423/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From vorlon@dodds.net Fri Sep 25 22:28:16 2009 From: vorlon@dodds.net (Steve Langasek) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:28:16 -0700 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> Message-ID: <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 07:43:16PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: > Ubuntu is easy to use and works ok, but isn't real stable. It definitely > does not scale at all. Might just be relative to my experiences with > gentoo... I would put it in the same boat as Suse, Red Hat, Fedora etc..= =2E=20 So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and that Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? > Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a lot of > time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an > ubuntu system. There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. Perhaps you had a problem with the network between you and the Ubuntu system. > If you want something easy, stable, and scales nicely I would recommend > slackware. I think you need to explain what you mean here by "easy", "stable", and "scalable" here, since based on *my* 13 years of experience with Linux, your definitions appear to be the exact opposite of what I understand by these terms. --=20 Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/cc03ca89/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From austinm@countrystone.com Fri Sep 25 22:57:58 2009 From: austinm@countrystone.com (Austin Mount) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:57:58 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> Steve Langasek wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 07:43:16PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: > >> Ubuntu is easy to use and works ok, but isn't real stable. It definitely >> does not scale at all. Might just be relative to my experiences with >> gentoo... I would put it in the same boat as Suse, Red Hat, Fedora etc... >> > > So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and that > Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? > > Yes, I am claiming exactly that! Well Gentoo is a big loaded gun, if you don't know what you're doing no it wont be stable. On the other hand if you do then you can have the best OS possible for your hardware. I guess I'd rather just do everything myself and have everything work well the first time than have Ubuntu jack everything up and have to dig around to find what to fix. Those distros build everything to be generic so support a large range of hardware and large assortment of needs. You can't build it perfect for all systems so you have to compromise to make it ok on a large number of them... and thats just what it comes down to. You build a gentoo system specific for your box and your needs potentially making it superior to any other distro. >> Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a lot of >> time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an >> ubuntu system. >> > > There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. Perhaps you had a problem with > the network between you and the Ubuntu system. > > There was no network problem there... Every Ubuntu box I've worked on is slow to respond compared to every other distro... >> If you want something easy, stable, and scales nicely I would recommend >> slackware. >> > > I think you need to explain what you mean here by "easy", "stable", and > "scalable" here, since based on *my* 13 years of experience with Linux, your > definitions appear to be the exact opposite of what I understand by these > terms. > > Slackware is easy in that you put in a disc, boot off it and install just like you would windows, ubuntu, etc... unlike gentoo which is a build from source manual install... it should have everything you need in the installer for most servers and a basic workstation... however it does lack a decent package management system so additional package installation can be a pain if you don't understand source compiles, dependencies. But then there are quite a few packages in ubuntu's repos that are severely jacked up and I've had to hack through the junk to fix, or just went and did a source install... so you still end up in the same boat... Slackware is stable in that it doesn't break, lock up etc... it just works... and slackware is like that out of the box... Gentoo is that way if installed properly... yes Gentoo is hard, yes Gentoo forces you to know your hardware, and software very well to have a reliable system, but if you're a sys admin you should know that anyway.... Gentoo is worth the extra effort on a server or any system that has to be Rock Solid and can't go down... and if your going to use a binary distro on a server, slackware in my experience is the route to go... of course any linux distro is better than putting windows on a server... and yes if you don't want to learn linux you just want to run it on your pc you will want a binary distro and at that point it just becomes personal preference... I will admit I am partial to Gentoo... its been my distro of choice for close to 10 years now... and it has yet to let me down... -- Austin D. Mount A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS Systems Administration Application Development Web Services Office(309)787-1744x220 Cell(309)737-2086 From belthesar@belthesar.com Sat Sep 26 14:47:26 2009 From: belthesar@belthesar.com (Cody Wilson) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:47:26 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> Message-ID: <1E74744D-6991-485A-BF61-E5BDA84435CB@belthesar.com> To be completely honest, if you want to compile everything for a Debian-flavor OS in order to harden and optimize for your OS, it's perfectly doable. apt will do it. It is just not as simple to do so with Ubuntu or anything else Debian related compared to Gentoo. However, the learning curve of setting up your own kernel, figuring out what dependencies you really need and customizing your build environment for a proper Gentoo installation is daunting the first (few) goes. And this is coming from someone who beats the Gentoo Drum. -Cody Wilson On Sep 25, 2009, at 4:57 PM, Austin Mount wrote: > > Steve Langasek wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 07:43:16PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: >> >>> Ubuntu is easy to use and works ok, but isn't real stable. It >>> definitely >>> does not scale at all. Might just be relative to my experiences >>> with >>> gentoo... I would put it in the same boat as Suse, Red Hat, >>> Fedora etc... >> >> So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and >> that >> Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? >> >> > Yes, I am claiming exactly that! Well Gentoo is a big loaded gun, > if you don't know what you're doing no it wont be stable. On the > other hand if you do then you can have the best OS possible for your > hardware. I guess I'd rather just do everything myself and have > everything work well the first time than have Ubuntu jack everything > up and have to dig around to find what to fix. Those distros build > everything to be generic so support a large range of hardware and > large assortment of needs. You can't build it perfect for all > systems so you have to compromise to make it ok on a large number of > them... and thats just what it comes down to. You build a gentoo > system specific for your box and your needs potentially making it > superior to any other distro. >>> Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a >>> lot of >>> time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work >>> on an >>> ubuntu system. >>> >> >> There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. Perhaps you had a >> problem with >> the network between you and the Ubuntu system. >> >> > There was no network problem there... Every Ubuntu box I've worked > on is slow to respond compared to every other distro... >>> If you want something easy, stable, and scales nicely I would >>> recommend >>> slackware. >>> >> >> I think you need to explain what you mean here by "easy", "stable", >> and >> "scalable" here, since based on *my* 13 years of experience with >> Linux, your >> definitions appear to be the exact opposite of what I understand by >> these >> terms. >> >> > Slackware is easy in that you put in a disc, boot off it and install > just like you would windows, ubuntu, etc... unlike gentoo which is a > build from source manual install... it should have everything you > need in the installer for most servers and a basic workstation... > however it does lack a decent package management system so > additional package installation can be a pain if you don't > understand source compiles, dependencies. But then there are quite > a few packages in ubuntu's repos that are severely jacked up and > I've had to hack through the junk to fix, or just went and did a > source install... so you still end up in the same boat... > > Slackware is stable in that it doesn't break, lock up etc... it just > works... and slackware is like that out of the box... Gentoo is > that way if installed properly... yes Gentoo is hard, yes Gentoo > forces you to know your hardware, and software very well to have a > reliable system, but if you're a sys admin you should know that > anyway.... > > Gentoo is worth the extra effort on a server or any system that has > to be Rock Solid and can't go down... and if your going to use a > binary distro on a server, slackware in my experience is the route > to go... of course any linux distro is better than putting windows > on a server... and yes if you don't want to learn linux you just > want to run it on your pc you will want a binary distro and at that > point it just becomes personal preference... I will admit I am > partial to Gentoo... its been my distro of choice for close to 10 > years now... and it has yet to let me down... > > -- > Austin D. Mount > A.A.S., CompTIA A+, Compaq/HP APS > Systems Administration > Application Development > Web Services > Office(309)787-1744x220 > Cell(309)737-2086 > > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug From vorlon@dodds.net Sun Sep 27 08:11:16 2009 From: vorlon@dodds.net (Steve Langasek) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:11:16 -0700 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> Message-ID: <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:57:58PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: > >So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and that > >Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? > Yes, I am claiming exactly that! Well, hopefully people see this for the nonsense that it is. > >>Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a lot of > >>time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an > >>ubuntu system. > >There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. Perhaps you had a problem wi= th > >the network between you and the Ubuntu system. > There was no network problem there... How do you know that? > Every Ubuntu box I've worked on is slow to respond compared to every other > distro... Either you're describing something like http://blog.layer2.org/2007/10/14/slow-ssh-logins-in-ubuntu-feisty-704/ (which is not an issue in current versions of Ubuntu, and in any event is not "ssh is slow", it's "ssh takes a long time to allow a login"), or you are seeing a problem that no one else on the planet is. There are literally tens or hundreds of thousands of machines running the same stock Ubuntu kernel and the same stock Ubuntu ssh server config in the world. How many other people are using an identical kernel and ssh config to what you have on your Gentoo systems? When no one else is reporting the problem you're seeing, I suggest looking closer to home for the source of the bug. > But then there are quite a few packages in ubuntu's repos that are > severely jacked up and I've had to hack through the junk to fix, Such as what? > Slackware is stable in that it doesn't break, lock up etc... Neither do any of the other distros you've mentioned. > yes Gentoo is hard No, Gentoo isn't "hard", it just wastes your time doing by hand all the things that other distros have put the effort into getting right by default. > Gentoo is worth the extra effort on a server or any system that has > to be Rock Solid and can't go down... Ridiculous. --=20 Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/7e9c4d55/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From adk@52761.com Sun Sep 27 15:16:35 2009 From: adk@52761.com (Allen Kiddoo) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:16:35 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> Gawd, I love a good disto war. So much more exciting than those old Saturday night Gunsmoke reruns. Hi Ho Silver, ride away! Oops, wrong cowboy- cp /GunSmoke/* /LoneRanger/* Allen K ---------------------------- On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:57:58PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: > >> >So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and that >> >Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? > >> Yes, I am claiming exactly that! > > Well, hopefully people see this for the nonsense that it is. > >> >>Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! =A0I spend a lo= t of >> >>time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an >> >>ubuntu system. > >> >There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. =A0Perhaps you had a problem= with >> >the network between you and the Ubuntu system. > >> There was no network problem there... > > How do you know that? > >> Every Ubuntu box I've worked on is slow to respond compared to every oth= er >> distro... > > Either you're describing something like > http://blog.layer2.org/2007/10/14/slow-ssh-logins-in-ubuntu-feisty-704/ > (which is not an issue in current versions of Ubuntu, and in any event is > not "ssh is slow", it's "ssh takes a long time to allow a login"), or you > are seeing a problem that no one else on the planet is. > > There are literally tens or hundreds of thousands of machines running the > same stock Ubuntu kernel and the same stock Ubuntu ssh server config in t= he > world. =A0How many other people are using an identical kernel and ssh con= fig > to what you have on your Gentoo systems? > > When no one else is reporting the problem you're seeing, I suggest lookin= g > closer to home for the source of the bug. > >> But then there are quite a few packages in ubuntu's repos that are >> severely jacked up and I've had to hack through the junk to fix, > > Such as what? > >> Slackware is stable in that it doesn't break, lock up etc... > > Neither do any of the other distros you've mentioned. > >> yes Gentoo is hard > > No, Gentoo isn't "hard", it just wastes your time doing by hand all the > things that other distros have put the effort into getting right by defau= lt. > >> Gentoo is worth the extra effort on a server or any system that has >> to be Rock Solid and can't go down... > > Ridiculous. > > -- > Steve Langasek =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Give me a lever long e= nough and a Free OS > Debian Developer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 to set it on, and I = can move the world. > Ubuntu Developer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.debian.org/ > slangasek@ubuntu.com =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 vorlon@debian.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIVAwUBSr8QE1aNMPMhshM9AQhThg//doPYeKoCpbJ/+hMsmTBevamMG30JdMb2 > G8Lu3GEGRCSasTTl3TFGgZ/jtdwYGu8UR78q/qHzdH6aMFS01PuMIgcgfHPzHRJQ > QPxHTegM4Bfcwce4zar1fT/WpkABXHeV8zuTiUY495HyzauOoXMij1fRXp8Sh4b5 > ukMRPKcj0JZoDPi3pzJrQ8sKfpIN2yS2UJbwrcUMLI3elhSqVTzBaACAVAqcbXx1 > ESlrql0Nr3voqdOawAKvA5z5ltJz5SmyV0CIK5XlUM4lN2dWvIs9kQxwsii7PCcH > WMgjLKkLLsRCJzpIyXrcBnDB/5NBYPni3rRdUJunYY4rFnmdaXfgFnE8FwJH4kef > w7YEKRAbCc8qw10cDW1VyuU2qIFlDpLrWITtQfp4CpVXEjg74jucIfqPY/HXgU3l > df5pWdyafmTUBC6CP/b72KcG1kSO6lWRWRRGctzUGWeXcQ+dJGFMbwbgYLTV7vnw > kVds10/tx7TDVmYIg6dIFYXPeirLZcbViV9eI0VP6txq0tZe+IGBdSzku48u6j4f > YTpLC7jaIpMDu24Ff6bdUt6cT20V0lPaIGtf5uK72uFoq/yiSrfzEm5g14UCziJI > 28JGcwVf4wgM/eLGcGFwssMfuPHYwVfmxWdzJRM0hiq7991A8NRYVoksyJd7k/MO > qwXm47K30Ws=3D > =3Dnyz7 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > From austinm@countrystone.com Sun Sep 27 15:34:40 2009 From: austinm@countrystone.com (Austin D. Mount) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:34:40 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207A@cssbs1.countrystone.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment -----Original Message----- From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org on behalf of Steve Langasek Sent: Sun 9/27/2009 2:11 AM To: qclug@qclug.org Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro =20 On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:57:58PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: > >So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and = that > >Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? > Yes, I am claiming exactly that! -Well, hopefully people see this for the nonsense that it is. People are free to believe whatever they want to believe...=20 > >>Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a = lot of > >>time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on = an > >>ubuntu system. > >There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. Perhaps you had a problem = with > >the network between you and the Ubuntu system. > There was no network problem there... -How do you know that? Considering I did nothing other than change the distro and the problem = resolved I doubt it was anything else... > Every Ubuntu box I've worked on is slow to respond compared to every = other > distro... -Either you're describing something like -http://blog.layer2.org/2007/10/14/slow-ssh-logins-in-ubuntu-feisty-704/ -(which is not an issue in current versions of Ubuntu, and in any event = is -not "ssh is slow", it's "ssh takes a long time to allow a login"), or = you -are seeing a problem that no one else on the planet is. this very well could be the issue... and I experienced the same with = 9.04 though... -There are literally tens or hundreds of thousands of machines running = the -same stock Ubuntu kernel and the same stock Ubuntu ssh server config in = the -world. How many other people are using an identical kernel and ssh = config -to what you have on your Gentoo systems? just because everybody's doing it doesn't mean its right, my system has = different needs and hardware than most other people so I would expect it = to be different... thats the point of gentoo... choices... not to = mention there kernel patches are the best out there... I hate the fact = that on an ubuntu every module is built and that it takes longer to boot = because the system has to probe for auto detection every time the system = loads... I'll stick with my gentoo sources builds that have only what i = need, built into the kernel (not as a module) and boots with a fraction = of the time -When no one else is reporting the problem you're seeing, I suggest = looking -closer to home for the source of the bug. I don't claim to know everything about linux and yes the bug very well = could be in my configs, but again this is on a stock ubuntu build and = i've changed distros and the issue is gone... and this isn't just one = system, I see it on every ubuntu box i've worked on... > But then there are quite a few packages in ubuntu's repos that are > severely jacked up and I've had to hack through the junk to fix, -Such as what? for example: postfix doesn't play nice with cyrus-sasl and authdaemonrc = with the basic deb build due to the way its chrooted... I forget = exactly what I did to fix it but it included creating a symlink and then = something else otherwise the symlink got removed on reboot also the roundcube packase just doesn't make sense... its just php and I = really think it should just create a dir in /var/www and then create a = vhost entry in apache, but thats not the case... it puts files all over = the place... so I just stick with the tar file and manually create the = vhost entry > Slackware is stable in that it doesn't break, lock up etc... --Neither do any of the other distros you've mentioned. =20 several packages in ubuntu lock up the box, and if you install all the = updates it wants you to by default it almost always causes something not = to work... for new linux users that ubuntu is aimed at i would find this = to be of concern suse lacks alot of packages in thier repos (atleast in the enterprise = edition, opensuse has quite a bit more) I hate rpm and feel that its garbage... > yes Gentoo is hard -No, Gentoo isn't "hard", it just wastes your time doing by hand all the -things that other distros have put the effort into getting right by = default. Again you are free to believe whatever you want.... However Gentoo is = about choices, and gentoo does get it right by default... it lets you = choose... why do i want a binary package that is built with ldap support = when I'm using mysql as a back end or vice versa? gentoo put the effort = into portage to allow you those choices just by setting use flags on a = per package or global level... if you're fine having the extra stuff = built on your system thats fine... but I'm a minimalist... I'll keep X = off my servers... no gdm or gnome on my workstations... just fluxbox and = gnome libs etc... and i won't build support into the apps I'm not going = to use like ipv6... its more work to make those choices on an deb or rpm = based system... when a box is being pounded every little bit of = resources helps... and it might not may so much a difference with one = package but over the sum it can make a significant one...=20 and your right I don't think Gentoo is hard anymore, but I've been = running it for awhile... It was hard for me on my first few builds = because I had never built a custom kernel before... and I'm sure nobody = who has done a Gentoo build would think the same... However gentoo is = very well documented and has a great forum and irc channels to assist = you ... > Gentoo is worth the extra effort on a server or any system that has > to be Rock Solid and can't go down... -Ridiculous. If you want to prove it, anytime you want to do benchmark tests with = your stock ubuntu/debian system against a hardware comparable gentoo = system I have we can, as long as we publish all results right here on = the LUG.... --=20 Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free = OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the = world. Ubuntu Developer = http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com = vorlon@debian.org ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 8094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/755617c5/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- From brandongriffis@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 15:45:59 2009 From: brandongriffis@gmail.com (brandongriffis@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:45:59 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4abf7aaa.47c2f10a.1bae.ffff85d9@mx.google.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment I agree. Its been too long since I've been witness to a good distro war. Th= is takes me back years. -B -- Sent from my Palm Pre Allen Kiddoo wrote: Gawd, I love a good disto war. So much more exciting than those old Saturday night Gunsmoke reruns. Hi Ho Silver, ride away! Oops, wrong cowboy- cp /GunSmoke/* /LoneRanger/* Allen K ---------------------------- On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Steve Langasek <vorlon@dodds.net> wrote: > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:57:58PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: > >> >So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and that >> >Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? > >> Yes, I am claiming exactly that! > > Well, hopefully people see this for the nonsense that it is. > >> >>Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! =C2=A0I spend= a lot of >> >>time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an >> >>ubuntu system. > >> >There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. =C2=A0Perhaps you had a prob= lem with >> >the network between you and the Ubuntu system. > >> There was no network problem there... > > How do you know that? > >> Every Ubuntu box I've worked on is slow to respond compared to every oth= er >> distro... > > Either you're describing something like > http://blog.layer2.org/2007/10/14/slow-ssh-logins-in-ubuntu-feisty-704/ > (which is not an issue in current versions of Ubuntu, and in any event is > not "ssh is slow", it's "ssh takes a long time to allow a login"), or you > are seeing a problem that no one else on the planet is. > > There are literally tens or hundreds of thousands of machines running the > same stock Ubuntu kernel and the same stock Ubuntu ssh server config in= the > world. =C2=A0How many other people are using an identical kernel and ssh= config > to what you have on your Gentoo systems? > > When no one else is reporting the problem you're seeing, I suggest looking > closer to home for the source of the bug. > >> But then there are quite a few packages in ubuntu's repos that are >> severely jacked up and I've had to hack through the junk to fix, > > Such as what? > >> Slackware is stable in that it doesn't break, lock up etc... > > Neither do any of the other distros you've mentioned. > >> yes Gentoo is hard > > No, Gentoo isn't "hard", it just wastes your time doing by hand all the > things that other distros have put the effort into getting right by defau= lt. > >> Gentoo is worth the extra effort on a server or any system that has >> to be Rock Solid and can't go down... > > Ridiculous. > > -- > Steve Langasek =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS > Debian Developer =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 to set it on, and I can move the world. > Ubuntu Developer =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http:= //www.debian.org/ > slangasek@ubuntu.com =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= vorlon@debian.org > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIVAwUBSr8QE1aNMPMhshM9AQhThg//doPYeKoCpbJ/+hMsmTBevamMG30JdMb2 > G8Lu3GEGRCSasTTl3TFGgZ/jtdwYGu8UR78q/qHzdH6aMFS01PuMIgcgfHPzHRJQ > QPxHTegM4Bfcwce4zar1fT/WpkABXHeV8zuTiUY495HyzauOoXMij1fRXp8Sh4b5 > ukMRPKcj0JZoDPi3pzJrQ8sKfpIN2yS2UJbwrcUMLI3elhSqVTzBaACAVAqcbXx1 > ESlrql0Nr3voqdOawAKvA5z5ltJz5SmyV0CIK5XlUM4lN2dWvIs9kQxwsii7PCcH > WMgjLKkLLsRCJzpIyXrcBnDB/5NBYPni3rRdUJunYY4rFnmdaXfgFnE8FwJH4kef > w7YEKRAbCc8qw10cDW1VyuU2qIFlDpLrWITtQfp4CpVXEjg74jucIfqPY/HXgU3l > df5pWdyafmTUBC6CP/b72KcG1kSO6lWRWRRGctzUGWeXcQ+dJGFMbwbgYLTV7vnw > kVds10/tx7TDVmYIg6dIFYXPeirLZcbViV9eI0VP6txq0tZe+IGBdSzku48u6j4f > YTpLC7jaIpMDu24Ff6bdUt6cT20V0lPaIGtf5uK72uFoq/yiSrfzEm5g14UCziJI > 28JGcwVf4wgM/eLGcGFwssMfuPHYwVfmxWdzJRM0hiq7991A8NRYVoksyJd7k/MO > qwXm47K30Ws=3D > =3Dnyz7 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ QCLUG mailing list QCLUG@qclug.org http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/b106bab9/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From m.sweet83@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 16:03:11 2009 From: m.sweet83@gmail.com (Matthew Sweet) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:03:11 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <4abf7aaa.47c2f10a.1bae.ffff85d9@mx.google.com> References: <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> <4abf7aaa.47c2f10a.1bae.ffff85d9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment If only I can convince the wife to let me install Linux on our i7 machine... On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:45 AM, brandongriffis@gmail.com < brandongriffis@gmail.com> wrote: > I agree. Its been too long since I've been witness to a good distro war. > This takes me back years. > > -B > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > ------------------------------ > Allen Kiddoo wrote: > > Gawd, I love a good disto war. So much more exciting than those old > Saturday night Gunsmoke reruns. Hi Ho Silver, ride away! > Oops, wrong cowboy- cp /GunSmoke/* /LoneRanger/* > > Allen K > ---------------------------- > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Steve Langasek wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:57:58PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: > > > >> >So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and that > >> >Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? > > > >> Yes, I am claiming exactly that! > > > > Well, hopefully people see this for the nonsense that it is. > > > >> >>Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a lot > of > >> >>time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an > > >> >>ubuntu system. > > > >> >There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. Perhaps you had a problem > with > >> >the network between you and the Ubuntu system. > > > >> There was no network problem there... > > > > How do you know that? > > > >> Every Ubuntu box I've worked on is slow to respond compared to every > other > >> distro... > > > > Either you're describing something like > > http://blog.layer2.org/2007/10/14/slow-ssh-logins-in-ubuntu-feisty-704/ > > (which is not an issue in current versions of Ubuntu, and in any event is > > > not "ssh is slow", it's "ssh takes a long time to allow a login"), or you > > > are seeing a problem that no one else on the planet is. > > > > There are literally tens or hundreds of thousands of machines running the > > > same stock Ubuntu kernel and the same stock Ubuntu ssh server config in > the > > world. How many other people are using an identical kernel and ssh > config > > to what you have on your Gentoo systems? > > > > When no one else is reporting the problem you're seeing, I suggest > looking > > closer to home for the source of the bug. > > > >> But then there are quite a few packages in ubuntu's repos that are > >> severely jacked up and I've had to hack through the junk to fix, > > > > Such as what? > > > >> Slackware is stable in that it doesn't break, lock up etc... > > > > Neither do any of the other distros you've mentioned. > > > >> yes Gentoo is hard > > > > No, Gentoo isn't "hard", it just wastes your time doing by hand all the > > things that other distros have put the effort into getting right by > default. > > > >> Gentoo is worth the extra effort on a server or any system that has > >> to be Rock Solid and can't go down... > > > > Ridiculous. > > > > -- > > Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free > OS > > Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the > world. > > Ubuntu Developer > http://www.debian.org/ > > slangasek@ubuntu.com > vorlon@debian.org > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iQIVAwUBSr8QE1aNMPMhshM9AQhThg//doPYeKoCpbJ/+hMsmTBevamMG30JdMb2 > > G8Lu3GEGRCSasTTl3TFGgZ/jtdwYGu8UR78q/qHzdH6aMFS01PuMIgcgfHPzHRJQ > > QPxHTegM4Bfcwce4zar1fT/WpkABXHeV8zuTiUY495HyzauOoXMij1fRXp8Sh4b5 > > ukMRPKcj0JZoDPi3pzJrQ8sKfpIN2yS2UJbwrcUMLI3elhSqVTzBaACAVAqcbXx1 > > ESlrql0Nr3voqdOawAKvA5z5ltJz5SmyV0CIK5XlUM4lN2dWvIs9kQxwsii7PCcH > > WMgjLKkLLsRCJzpIyXrcBnDB/5NBYPni3rRdUJunYY4rFnmdaXfgFnE8FwJH4kef > > w7YEKRAbCc8qw10cDW1VyuU2qIFlDpLrWITtQfp4CpVXEjg74jucIfqPY/HXgU3l > > df5pWdyafmTUBC6CP/b72KcG1kSO6lWRWRRGctzUGWeXcQ+dJGFMbwbgYLTV7vnw > > kVds10/tx7TDVmYIg6dIFYXPeirLZcbViV9eI0VP6txq0tZe+IGBdSzku48u6j4f > > YTpLC7jaIpMDu24Ff6bdUt6cT20V0lPaIGtf5uK72uFoq/yiSrfzEm5g14UCziJI > > 28JGcwVf4wgM/eLGcGFwssMfuPHYwVfmxWdzJRM0hiq7991A8NRYVoksyJd7k/MO > > qwXm47K30Ws= > > =nyz7 > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > -- Matt Sweet ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/35ca96a5/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From tgoltz@QuietSoftware.com Sun Sep 27 16:08:24 2009 From: tgoltz@QuietSoftware.com (Tom Goltz) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:08:24 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Slackware and distros for learning Linux In-Reply-To: <20090927141649.46069212084@mail.quietsoftware.com> References: <20090927141649.46069212084@mail.quietsoftware.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20090927095528.03cecd60@QuietSoftware.com> At Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 07:43:16PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: >Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! I spend a lot of >time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an >ubuntu system. I've never, ever had any SSH performance issues on my Ubuntu systems, and that includes SFTP file transfers over my Gigabit LAN. >If you want something easy, stable, and scales nicely I would recommend >slackware. Slackware is a great distro, and indeed is the very first Linux distribution that I worked with. HOWEVER... Slackware has NEVER made hand-holding or ease of use a priority. If you don't know WHY /boot is frequently placed in it's own partition, what the size limits on it are, and when you do or do not need to create a separate partition for it, and the optimum order for creating the boot, root and swap filesystems, then I would direct you away from Slackware. Slackware has always assumed that you are either an expert, or willing to do ALL of your homework before even starting the install. For someone who is trying to do the learn-as-you-burn approach, Slackware will usually be incredibly agonizing and painful to use. When I started with Slackware, I did a half-dozen installs before I managed to create my first running system, and then did it over another half-dozen times after I managed to fubar that system when trying to configure it. It's very, very hard for an expert in something to recommend a tool (book, software, etc) for someone who is just learning...something that is incredibly obvious and easy to the expert will stop a learner cold, and you MUST keep that in mind when crafting a recommendation. From QCAdmin@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 17:15:38 2009 From: QCAdmin@gmail.com (Chris Cooper) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:15:38 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207A@cssbs1.countrystone.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207A@cssbs1.countrystone.com> Message-ID: Arguing about distros really is about as productive as arguing about what kind of lamp to buy. it is all a matter of preference. My honest advice, download a few distro's and take the tour. Try each one out for a month then come back to the one you like. Each one has it's pros and cons, and it's own place/use, despite what anyone else may say. That being said, I'm not going to try to evangelize a distro here. At work, we use and support Ubuntu, Debian, Gentoo, Slackware, Madriva, and Cent OS servers, and both Ubuntu and Suse desktops. For me, they are all about the same. Everything I have tried has been more than stable once it is up and running. The thing I personally look for in a server distro is package management. I only install once and configure once, but I update packages monthly. Since the majority of my time interacting with the server is spent installing security updates, I look for a distro that makes that easy. Specifically, handling the merging of updated config files. For desktop distro's I tend to go where the community is. That is only because I find the forums very helpful when I run into obscure or bleeding-edge problems. As to the rest of the posts: >If only I can convince the wife to let me install Linux on our i7 machine.= .. Perhaps one of the greatest innovations in desktop Linux is the WUBI Ubuntu installer. It lets you install Ubuntu from inside windows without needing to repartition or replace the MBR. Ubuntu just shows up as a boot option in the windows boot selector. If you don't like it, just go to Add/Remove programs and uninstall it. It is a great way for someone to try out Linux without any hassle or commitment. Personally, the only issues I have seen with Ubuntu Server SSH is with the login process. Logins (specifically with keyed auth) can take up to 15 seconds to respond and login. However, once logged in, the connection is just fine (I did, however, have a weird slowness when using an older version of PuTTY, but it cleared up when I moved to a more recent version) > for example: postfix doesn't play nice with cyrus-sasl and authdaemonrc w= ith the basic deb build due to the way its chrooted... I forget exactly wh= at I did to fix it but it included creating a symlink and then something el= se otherwise the symlink got removed on reboot The issue is that authdaemon creates it's socket in /var/run, which is a ramdisk in Ubuntu. The problem comes from postfix using a chroot. Typically you make a hard link inside the chroot for the authdaemon socket. Since /var/run is a different partition (a ram disk), you can't hard link it. The fix I use is to change the authdaemon config to have it make it's socket inside the chroot path, then add an rc.local line to create a symlink from the original path to the chrooted location (since you can symlink into a chroot, but not out of it). On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Austin D. Mount wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org on behalf of Steve Langasek > Sent: Sun 9/27/2009 2:11 AM > To: qclug@qclug.org > Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:57:58PM -0500, Austin Mount wrote: > >> >So, um... you're claiming that Gentoo is stable and scalable, and that >> >Ubuntu, SuSE, Red Hat, and Fedora are not? > >> Yes, I am claiming exactly that! > > -Well, hopefully people see this for the nonsense that it is. > > People are free to believe whatever they want to believe... > >> >>Another bad thing about Ubuntu is ssh is sloooowwwww!! =A0I spend a lo= t of >> >>time in a ssh session so that drives me nuts when I have to work on an >> >>ubuntu system. > >> >There is nothing slow about ssh on Ubuntu. =A0Perhaps you had a problem= with >> >the network between you and the Ubuntu system. > >> There was no network problem there... > > -How do you know that? > > Considering I did nothing other than change the distro and the problem re= solved I doubt it was anything else... > >> Every Ubuntu box I've worked on is slow to respond compared to every oth= er >> distro... > > -Either you're describing something like > -http://blog.layer2.org/2007/10/14/slow-ssh-logins-in-ubuntu-feisty-704/ > -(which is not an issue in current versions of Ubuntu, and in any event i= s > -not "ssh is slow", it's "ssh takes a long time to allow a login"), or yo= u > -are seeing a problem that no one else on the planet is. > > this very well could be the issue... and I experienced the same with 9.04= though... > > -There are literally tens or hundreds of thousands of machines running th= e > -same stock Ubuntu kernel and the same stock Ubuntu ssh server config in = the > -world. =A0How many other people are using an identical kernel and ssh co= nfig > -to what you have on your Gentoo systems? > > just because everybody's doing it doesn't mean its right, =A0my system ha= s different needs and hardware than most other people so I would expect it = to be different... thats the point of gentoo... choices... =A0not to mentio= n there kernel patches are the best out there... =A0I hate the fact that on= an ubuntu every module is built and that it takes longer to boot because t= he system has to probe for auto detection every time the system loads... = =A0I'll stick with my gentoo sources builds that have only what i need, bui= lt into the kernel (not as a module) and boots with a fraction of the time > > -When no one else is reporting the problem you're seeing, I suggest looki= ng > -closer to home for the source of the bug. > > I don't claim to know everything about linux and yes the bug very well co= uld be in my configs, but again this is on a stock ubuntu build and i've ch= anged distros and the issue is gone... and this isn't just one system, I se= e it on every ubuntu box i've worked on... > >> But then there are quite a few packages in ubuntu's repos that are >> severely jacked up and I've had to hack through the junk to fix, > > -Such as what? > for example: postfix doesn't play nice with cyrus-sasl and authdaemonrc w= ith the basic deb build due to the way its chrooted... =A0I forget exactly = what I did to fix it but it included creating a symlink and then something = else otherwise the symlink got removed on reboot > > also the roundcube packase just doesn't make sense... its just php and I = really think it should just create a dir in /var/www and then create a vhos= t entry in apache, but thats not the case... it puts files all over the pla= ce... so I just stick with the tar file and manually create the vhost entry > >> Slackware is stable in that it doesn't break, lock up etc... > > --Neither do any of the other distros you've mentioned. > several packages in ubuntu lock up the box, and if you install all the up= dates it wants you to by default it almost always causes something not to w= ork... for new linux users that ubuntu is aimed at i would find this to be = of concern > suse lacks alot of packages in thier repos (atleast in the enterprise edi= tion, opensuse has quite a bit more) > I hate rpm and feel that its garbage... > >> yes Gentoo is hard > > -No, Gentoo isn't "hard", it just wastes your time doing by hand all the > -things that other distros have put the effort into getting right by defa= ult. > > Again you are free to believe whatever you want.... However Gentoo is abo= ut choices, and gentoo does get it right by default... it lets you choose..= . why do i want a binary package that is built with ldap support when I'm u= sing mysql as a back end or vice versa? =A0gentoo put the effort into porta= ge to allow you those choices just by setting use flags on a per package or= global level... =A0if you're fine having the extra stuff built on your sys= tem thats fine... but I'm a minimalist... =A0I'll keep X off my servers... = no gdm or gnome on my workstations... just fluxbox and gnome libs etc... an= d i won't build support into the apps I'm not going to use like ipv6... its= more work to make those choices on an deb or rpm based system... when a bo= x is being pounded every little bit of resources helps... and it might not = may so much a difference with one package but over the sum it can make a si= gnificant one... > > and your right I don't think Gentoo is hard anymore, but I've been runnin= g it for awhile... It was hard for me on my first few builds because I had = never built a custom kernel before... and I'm sure nobody who has done a Ge= ntoo build would think the same... However gentoo is very well documented a= nd has a great forum and irc channels to assist you ... > >> Gentoo is worth the extra effort on a server or any system that has >> to be Rock Solid and can't go down... > > -Ridiculous. > If you want to prove it, anytime you want to do benchmark tests with your= stock ubuntu/debian system against a hardware comparable gentoo system I h= ave we can, as long as we publish all results right here on the LUG.... > > -- > Steve Langasek =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Give me a lever long e= nough and a Free OS > Debian Developer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 to set it on, and I = can move the world. > Ubuntu Developer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.debian.org/ > slangasek@ubuntu.com =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 vorlon@debian.org > > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > > From m.sweet83@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 17:46:52 2009 From: m.sweet83@gmail.com (Matthew Sweet) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:46:52 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207A@cssbs1.countrystone.com> Message-ID: ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Chris Cooper wrote: > > > As to the rest of the posts: > > >If only I can convince the wife to let me install Linux on our i7 > machine... > > Perhaps one of the greatest innovations in desktop Linux is the WUBI > Ubuntu installer. It lets you install Ubuntu from inside windows > without needing to repartition or replace the MBR. Ubuntu just shows > up as a boot option in the windows boot selector. If you don't like > it, just go to Add/Remove programs and uninstall it. It is a great > way for someone to try out Linux without any hassle or commitment. > I had read that doing this will result in Vista claiming a "corrupt installation". I don't understand how exactly, but I wasn't willing to risk it...being that my wife relies on the machine running Windows. However, I do have a recovery disc...and it's about time I backed up our data anyways. Why not? What's to lose really? "Sorry sweetheart, Windows wont work anymore..." *crosses fingers* "...I guess we'll just have to use Linux!" Thanks for the input! You've given me motivation. -- Matt Sweet ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/3828512b/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From fatpuppystew@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 17:55:25 2009 From: fatpuppystew@gmail.com (Mike Robinson) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:55:25 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207A@cssbs1.countrystone.com> Message-ID: <1254070525.5295.1.camel@localhost> taunting the wife, dangerous proposition, wish you luck! On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 11:46 -0500, Matthew Sweet wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Chris Cooper > wrote: > > As to the rest of the posts: > > >If only I can convince the wife to let me install Linux on > our i7 machine... > > > Perhaps one of the greatest innovations in desktop Linux is > the WUBI > Ubuntu installer. It lets you install Ubuntu from inside > windows > without needing to repartition or replace the MBR. Ubuntu > just shows > up as a boot option in the windows boot selector. If you > don't like > it, just go to Add/Remove programs and uninstall it. It is a > great > way for someone to try out Linux without any hassle or > commitment. > > I had read that doing this will result in Vista claiming a "corrupt > installation". I don't understand how exactly, but I wasn't willing to > risk it...being that my wife relies on the machine running Windows. > > > However, I do have a recovery disc...and it's about time I backed up > our data anyways. Why not? What's to lose really? > > > "Sorry sweetheart, Windows wont work anymore..." *crosses fingers* > "...I guess we'll just have to use Linux!" > > > Thanks for the input! You've given me motivation. > > -- > Matt Sweet > > From vorlon@dodds.net Sun Sep 27 19:37:08 2009 From: vorlon@dodds.net (Steve Langasek) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:37:08 -0700 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090927183707.GA24173@dario.dodds.net> ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 09:16:35AM -0500, Allen Kiddoo wrote: > Gawd, I love a good disto war. So much more exciting than those old > Saturday night Gunsmoke reruns. Hi Ho Silver, ride away! > Oops, wrong cowboy- cp /GunSmoke/* /LoneRanger/* If you think this is about "my distro is better than yours", then you're missing the point (at least, /my/ point). What this is about is not making ignorant and unsubstantiated claims smearing other distributions. When Microsoft does it, we call it "FUD" and recognize that it's inappropriate; but apparently it's ok for Linux users to make those same claims about other Linux distributions with impunity? For shame. --=20 Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 827 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/86a017e7/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/signed attachment-- From m.sweet83@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 20:04:15 2009 From: m.sweet83@gmail.com (Matthew) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:04:15 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <20090927183707.GA24173@dario.dodds.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> <20090927183707.GA24173@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <4ABFB72F.9090303@gmail.com> Steve Langasek wrote: > If you think this is about "my distro is better than yours", then you're > missing the point (at least, /my/ point). What this is about is not making > ignorant and unsubstantiated claims smearing other distributions. When > Microsoft does it, we call it "FUD" and recognize that it's inappropriate; > but apparently it's ok for Linux users to make those same claims about other > Linux distributions with impunity? For shame. > > I'd just like to add that in my little time spent in the Linux community, I've noticed users having "pissing matches" over who's distro is better. I'm no expert, but I do know that individual's hardware specs and overall purpose for a distro determine it's performance and functionality. I could argue up and down the forums that Mandrake 7.0 is the world's greatest Linux distro. Users would come back with their distro and how much better it is than Mandrake. The whole arguement could have been avoided had I included I was running on a Packard Bell machine Cyrix MII Processor and 64mb of RAM...and my sole purpose for running Linux is text editing and making nifty .png's with GIMP. Including said information might have earned me some flame points for running on such an ancient piece of technology, but nobody could argue their system is better unless they had the same specs and the same purpose for running their distro. Furthermore, For argument sake, I do agree with you. From baldylinux@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 20:28:14 2009 From: baldylinux@gmail.com (Baldy) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:28:14 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <20090927183707.GA24173@dario.dodds.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> <20090927183707.GA24173@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <4ABFBCCE.3010205@gmail.com> Steve Langasek wrote: > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 09:16:35AM -0500, Allen Kiddoo wrote: > >> Gawd, I love a good disto war. So much more exciting than those old >> Saturday night Gunsmoke reruns. Hi Ho Silver, ride away! >> Oops, wrong cowboy- cp /GunSmoke/* /LoneRanger/* >> > > If you think this is about "my distro is better than yours", then you're > missing the point (at least, /my/ point). What this is about is not making > ignorant and unsubstantiated claims smearing other distributions. When > Microsoft does it, we call it "FUD" and recognize that it's inappropriate; > but apparently it's ok for Linux users to make those same claims about other > Linux distributions with impunity? For shame. > > Okay I agree well said. -- http://www.baldysparadox.com http://thebarrel.net/blog ICQ #899207 Registered Linux User #266786 Skype Riverhack Open 24 hours a day for your browsing ease! From brandongriffis@gmail.com Sun Sep 27 20:46:10 2009 From: brandongriffis@gmail.com (brandongriffis@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:46:10 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <20090927183707.GA24173@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <4abfc105.47c1f10a.265a.6ef3@mx.google.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Only Hitler would use "for shame" during a debate. There, Godwin's law has been met. I lose. You all win. Fight's over. :-P -B -- Sent from my Palm Pre Steve Langasek wrote: On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 09:16:35AM -0500, Allen Kiddoo wrote: > Gawd, I love a good disto war. So much more exciting than those old > Saturday night Gunsmoke reruns. Hi Ho Silver, ride away! > Oops, wrong cowboy- cp /GunSmoke/* /LoneRanger/* If you think this is about "my distro is better than yours", then you're missing the point (at least, /my/ point). What this is about is not making ignorant and unsubstantiated claims smearing other distributions. When Microsoft does it, we call it "FUD" and recognize that it's inappropriate; but apparently it's ok for Linux users to make those same claims about other Linux distributions with impunity? For shame. --=20 Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/eb30714a/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From austinm@countrystone.com Sun Sep 27 23:42:00 2009 From: austinm@countrystone.com (Austin D. Mount) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:42:00 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> <20090927183707.GA24173@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207B@cssbs1.countrystone.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment If it came off that I'm smearing other distro's I'm sorry you got the = wrong impression... I was trying point out the benefits to running a = "Meta" or "Build from scratch" distro over a binary distro... and to me = those are all benefits creating a potentially superior system... and = some may find that the benefits aren't worth the work, or they are = disadvantages as you seem too and thats fine... and my statements of = being unstable are relative to out of the box base install to what you = can do if you were doing source compiles... I guess I should have stated = more stable and not put those other distros in the same boat as = windows.... linux is linux regardless of distro... its still the = kernel(albeit most distros patch thiers) along with gnu tools... and = everything you can do with Gentoo you can do with other distros, it just = is alot more difficult in the others... One of the posts was saying that the best distro depends on what your = using it for and thats very true... I like gentoo because the way its = setup it can be everything to everyone. It does require alot of extra = work and there are instances where other distro's excel at certain = things out of the box... for instance a router.. any linux distro can be = configured to be a router... but there are a few that are specifically = designed for that including freesco which is based on the old 2.4 kernel = (or was last time i messed with it) and pfSense which is freeBSD 7.2 and = is working quite well... using it at work to connect 20 + locations via = openVPN, we have 3 sites up now... and Monowall which i don't have much = experience with but from what I read is very similar to pfSense but = primarily for running an embeded kernel... I still believe that a good Gentoo build is going to out perform any = binary packaged software for any purpose on benchmark tests... and I do = believe that it will boot significantly faster ripping all the extra = modules you don't need out of the kernel... Also by removing extra = stuff, you simplify your system, reducing potential fail points... which = in my mind would make a system more stable... thats my point... not = intentionally putting down other distros... -----Original Message----- From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org on behalf of Steve Langasek Sent: Sun 9/27/2009 1:37 PM To: qclug@qclug.org Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro =20 On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 09:16:35AM -0500, Allen Kiddoo wrote: > Gawd, I love a good disto war. So much more exciting than those old > Saturday night Gunsmoke reruns. Hi Ho Silver, ride away! > Oops, wrong cowboy- cp /GunSmoke/* /LoneRanger/* If you think this is about "my distro is better than yours", then you're missing the point (at least, /my/ point). What this is about is not = making ignorant and unsubstantiated claims smearing other distributions. When Microsoft does it, we call it "FUD" and recognize that it's = inappropriate; but apparently it's ok for Linux users to make those same claims about = other Linux distributions with impunity? For shame. --=20 Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free = OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the = world. Ubuntu Developer = http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com = vorlon@debian.org ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 6400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/416e03c6/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/mixed attachment-- From crossguy@hotmail.com Tue Sep 29 04:22:26 2009 From: crossguy@hotmail.com (Ben Ziegler) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:22:26 +0000 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207B@cssbs1.countrystone.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <90a4b7c8423f7cb7adf87dd3c5b8a701@10.0.0.252> <20090925212813.GB7601@dario.dodds.net> <4ABD3CE6.1050503@countrystone.com> <20090927071115.GA9672@dario.dodds.net> <678823f00909270716g4d5f6375te43352f7f1588b4a@mail.gmail.com> <20090927183707.GA24173@dario.dodds.net> <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207B@cssbs1.countrystone.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment http://funroll-loops.info/ Thought I should pass this along before the flames die entirely... That said=2C customization _can_ help certain systems. I have a 'hardware = test' box spends most of it's time open to throw in the latest junk shop fi= nds. I've had no complaints about Debian in that regard after learning to = use the in-tree kernel sources and loadable modules for everything that mig= ht (not) be installed this boot. OTOH=2C I thought portage was impressive = the last time I played with Gentoo (2004)=2C provided you had a binary repo= handy. I'd probably take it over any package manager save apt. Ben Ziegler > Subject: RE: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro > Date: Sun=2C 27 Sep 2009 17:42:00 -0500 > From: austinm@countrystone.com > To: qclug@qclug.org >=20 > If it came off that I'm smearing other distro's I'm sorry you got the wro= ng impression... I was trying point out the benefits to running a "Meta" o= r "Build from scratch" distro over a binary distro... and to me those are a= ll benefits creating a potentially superior system... and some may find tha= t the benefits aren't worth the work=2C or they are disadvantages as you se= em too and thats fine... and my statements of being unstable are relative = to out of the box base install to what you can do if you were doing source = compiles... I guess I should have stated more stable and not put those othe= r distros in the same boat as windows.... linux is linux regardless of dist= ro... its still the kernel(albeit most distros patch thiers) along with gnu= tools... and everything you can do with Gentoo you can do with other distr= os=2C it just is alot more difficult in the others... >=20 > One of the posts was saying that the best distro depends on what your usi= ng it for and thats very true... I like gentoo because the way its setup i= t can be everything to everyone. It does require alot of extra work and th= ere are instances where other distro's excel at certain things out of the b= ox... for instance a router.. any linux distro can be configured to be a ro= uter... but there are a few that are specifically designed for that includi= ng freesco which is based on the old 2.4 kernel (or was last time i messed = with it) and pfSense which is freeBSD 7.2 and is working quite well... usin= g it at work to connect 20 + locations via openVPN=2C we have 3 sites up no= w... and Monowall which i don't have much experience with but from what I r= ead is very similar to pfSense but primarily for running an embeded kernel.= .. >=20 > I still believe that a good Gentoo build is going to out perform any bina= ry packaged software for any purpose on benchmark tests... and I do believ= e that it will boot significantly faster ripping all the extra modules you = don't need out of the kernel... Also by removing extra stuff=2C you simplif= y your system=2C reducing potential fail points... which in my mind would m= ake a system more stable... thats my point... not intentionally putting do= wn other distros... >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org on behalf of Steve Langasek > Sent: Sun 9/27/2009 1:37 PM > To: qclug@qclug.org > Subject: Re: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro >=20 > On Sun=2C Sep 27=2C 2009 at 09:16:35AM -0500=2C Allen Kiddoo wrote: > > Gawd=2C I love a good disto war. So much more exciting than those old > > Saturday night Gunsmoke reruns. Hi Ho Silver=2C ride away! > > Oops=2C wrong cowboy- cp /GunSmoke/* /LoneRanger/* >=20 > If you think this is about "my distro is better than yours"=2C then you'r= e > missing the point (at least=2C /my/ point). What this is about is not ma= king > ignorant and unsubstantiated claims smearing other distributions. When > Microsoft does it=2C we call it "FUD" and recognize that it's inappropria= te=3B > but apparently it's ok for Linux users to make those same claims about ot= her > Linux distributions with impunity? For shame. >=20 > -- > Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free O= S > Debian Developer to set it on=2C and I can move the wor= ld. > Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org= / > slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.or= g >=20 =0A= _________________________________________________________________=0A= Bing=99 brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place. = Try it now.=0A= http://www.bing.com/search?q=3Drestaurants&form=3DMLOGEN&publ=3DWLHMTAG&cre= a=3DTEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1= ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/5a0e39db/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From volunteer.jim@gmail.com Tue Sep 29 21:18:51 2009 From: volunteer.jim@gmail.com (Jim Hall) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:18:51 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Recommendations for a Linux distro In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.6.2.20090924152425.02ae9d88@QuietSoftware.com> <4ABBF87D.9000308@gmail.com> <4ABC03EC.30802@gmail.com> <659928A57105EE4BB1A7A7EE07C486F92A207B@cssbs1.countrystone.com> Message-ID: <997c8c1b0909291318o222aa8f9nb4095b72c0d91f33@mail.gmail.com> ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Ben Ziegler wrote: > http://funroll-loops.info/ > > Thought I should pass this along before the flames die entirely... > That said, customization _can_ help certain systems. I have a 'hardware > test' box spends most of it's time open to throw in the latest junk shop > finds. I've had no complaints about Debian in that regard after learning to > use the in-tree kernel sources and loadable modules for everything that > might (not) be installed this boot. OTOH, I thought portage was impressive > the last time I played with Gentoo (2004), provided you had a binary repo > handy. I'd probably take it over any package manager save apt. > > Ben Ziegler > > I use two Distros: one for me and one for people who want to try Linux out. They satisfy the requirements I have, and that's all that really matters. Linux is still Linux. Jim ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://qclug.org/pipermail/qclug/attachments/c92e7b68/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment-- From agamotto@sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 30 19:59:16 2009 From: agamotto@sbcglobal.net (agamotto) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:59:16 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] Asbestos undies and distros Message-ID: <4AC3AA84.2060708@sbcglobal.net> Having used Mandrake, Red Hat (before Fedora), Mandriva, and SuSE, I settled on Ubuntu. I can't say that any ONE specific thing made me stick with Ubuntu. As the joke goes, it generally 'just works.' I am at a point in my life where the usability and stability of my OS is far more important than the latest features or programs. I am currently running 9.04, since it hasn't burped on me too badly on this box. On my Mythboxes, I am running the LTS 8.04, as there isn't anything in the last few versions of Mythbuntu that have solved anything/improved on what I have. I have managed to get two friends to convert their older laptops over, with one running Xubuntu due to low graphics ability, the other prefers SuSE as she says it is better at international support and switching of languages during use. Along the 'just works' line of thought; there is an excellent script created by Robbie Ferguson called Perfectbuntu that is great at automating many of the common installs and codec fetching that comes with an upgrade or fresh install. Cruise on over to category5.tv, find the linux scripts link under resources on the main page. Run time of the script will vary depending on what you activate, but I have yet to have anything break after running it. Ta From agamotto@sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 30 20:02:05 2009 From: agamotto@sbcglobal.net (agamotto) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:02:05 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] October meeting Message-ID: <4AC3AB2D.4000202@sbcglobal.net> Since I WILL be at this meeting, does anyone want me to bring in one of the Mythboxes and show off what it does? The only thing I would need from CIPA would be access to a power point and the telly on the wall. I am going to update/upgrade one to 9.04 this week, just to see if there is anything to get excited about. Might do 9.10, if Myth 0.22 is anywhere near as good as the claims. From hinkle@cipafilter.com Wed Sep 30 20:26:07 2009 From: hinkle@cipafilter.com (David Hinkle) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:26:07 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] October meeting In-Reply-To: <4AC3AB2D.4000202@sbcglobal.net> References: <4AC3AB2D.4000202@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2FF78E9478@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> SGV5LCBpcyB0aGlzIG5leHQgbWVldGluZyBnb2luZyB0byBiZSBhdCBDSVBBRmlsdGVyPyAgSXQn cyBiZWVuIGEgd2hpbGUgc2luY2UgSSd2ZSBzZWVuIHlvdSBndXlzLg0KDQpEYXZpZA0KDQotLS0t LU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogcWNsdWctYm91bmNlc0BxY2x1Zy5vcmcgW21h aWx0bzpxY2x1Zy1ib3VuY2VzQHFjbHVnLm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIGFnYW1vdHRvDQpTZW50 OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAzMCwgMjAwOSAyOjAyIFBNDQpUbzogcWNsdWdAcWNsdWcu b3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbUUNMVUddIE9jdG9iZXIgbWVldGluZw0KDQoJU2luY2UgSSBXSUxMIGJl IGF0IHRoaXMgbWVldGluZywgZG9lcyBhbnlvbmUgd2FudCBtZSB0byBicmluZyBpbiBvbmUgb2Yg DQp0aGUgTXl0aGJveGVzIGFuZCBzaG93IG9mZiB3aGF0IGl0IGRvZXM/ICBUaGUgb25seSB0aGlu ZyBJIHdvdWxkIG5lZWQgZnJvbSANCkNJUEEgd291bGQgYmUgYWNjZXNzIHRvIGEgcG93ZXIgcG9p bnQgYW5kIHRoZSB0ZWxseSBvbiB0aGUgd2FsbC4gIEkgYW0gDQpnb2luZyB0byB1cGRhdGUvdXBn cmFkZSBvbmUgdG8gOS4wNCB0aGlzIHdlZWssIGp1c3QgdG8gc2VlIGlmIHRoZXJlIGlzIA0KYW55 dGhpbmcgdG8gZ2V0IGV4Y2l0ZWQgYWJvdXQuICBNaWdodCBkbyA5LjEwLCBpZiBNeXRoIDAuMjIg aXMgYW55d2hlcmUgDQpuZWFyIGFzIGdvb2QgYXMgdGhlIGNsYWltcy4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NClFDTFVHIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0K UUNMVUdAcWNsdWcub3JnDQpodHRwOi8vcWNsdWcub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vcWNsdWcN Cg== From vorlon@dodds.net Wed Sep 30 20:56:01 2009 From: vorlon@dodds.net (Steve Langasek) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:56:01 -0700 Subject: [QCLUG] Asbestos undies and distros In-Reply-To: <4AC3AA84.2060708@sbcglobal.net> References: <4AC3AA84.2060708@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20090930195559.GC15612@dario.dodds.net> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 01:59:16PM -0500, agamotto wrote: > I have managed to get two friends to convert their older laptops > over, with one running Xubuntu due to low graphics ability, the > other prefers SuSE as she says it is better at international support > and switching of languages during use. I'd be interested to know what was lacking in Ubuntu's international support; System -> Administration -> Language Support "works for me" for configuring new languages, and changing document languages works the way I expect... If "switching languages during use" means changing the *UI* language for an already-logged-in session, I don't see any sane way to accomplish that, but logging out and logging back in under a different language also works as intended. Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org From leif.theden@gmail.com Wed Sep 30 20:58:29 2009 From: leif.theden@gmail.com (Leif Theden) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 03:58:29 +0800 Subject: [QCLUG] Asbestos undies and distros In-Reply-To: <20090930195559.GC15612@dario.dodds.net> References: <4AC3AA84.2060708@sbcglobal.net> <20090930195559.GC15612@dario.dodds.net> Message-ID: <9a65bf850909301258x2f847ad3qb7160f2dfc6a1d14@mail.gmail.com> Traditional Chinese support is a little lacking in areas. Just from experi= ence. On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:56 AM, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 01:59:16PM -0500, agamotto wrote: >> =A0 =A0 =A0 I have managed to get two friends to convert their older lap= tops >> over, with one running Xubuntu due to low graphics ability, the >> other prefers SuSE as she says it is better at international support >> and switching of languages during use. > > I'd be interested to know what was lacking in Ubuntu's international > support; System -> Administration -> Language Support "works for me" for > configuring new languages, and changing document languages works the way = I > expect... =A0If "switching languages during use" means changing the *UI* > language for an already-logged-in session, I don't see any sane way to > accomplish that, but logging out and logging back in under a different > language also works as intended. > > Cheers, > -- > Steve Langasek =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Give me a lever long e= nough and a Free OS > Debian Developer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 to set it on, and I = can move the world. > Ubuntu Developer =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0http://www.debian.org/ > slangasek@ubuntu.com =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 vorlon@debian.org > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug > From QCAdmin@gmail.com Wed Sep 30 21:35:01 2009 From: QCAdmin@gmail.com (Chris Cooper) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:35:01 -0500 Subject: [QCLUG] October meeting In-Reply-To: <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2FF78E9478@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> References: <4AC3AB2D.4000202@sbcglobal.net> <829AE8AE5830BB4E9FC75A7ED3BE8E0D2FF78E9478@EXCHANGE.cipafilter.local> Message-ID: By my understanding, the next meeting (Oct. 13th), should be at CIPA. That being said, I finally got my Popcorn Hour Media Tank and was thinking about bringing it with. It would be fun to compare a fully featured mythbox with an embeded linux solution. Let's break out the popcorn and talk about Media on linux. Has anyone been following the Boxee on Linux development? That would be fun to see as well. Cooper On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 2:26 PM, David Hinkle wrote= : > Hey, is this next meeting going to be at CIPAFilter? =A0It's been a while= since I've seen you guys. > > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: qclug-bounces@qclug.org [mailto:qclug-bounces@qclug.org] On Behalf = Of agamotto > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:02 PM > To: qclug@qclug.org > Subject: [QCLUG] October meeting > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Since I WILL be at this meeting, does anyone want me to br= ing in one of > the Mythboxes and show off what it does? =A0The only thing I would need f= rom > CIPA would be access to a power point and the telly on the wall. =A0I am > going to update/upgrade one to 9.04 this week, just to see if there is > anything to get excited about. =A0Might do 9.10, if Myth 0.22 is anywhere > near as good as the claims. > > _______________________________________________ > QCLUG mailing list > QCLUG@qclug.org > http://qclug.org/mailman/listinfo/qclug >